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Subject: NEWS Sokker- big changes are coming!
I could make such ranking by my own without waiting for devs to provide me such data.
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This way, winner of each countrys league will be guaraneted to play in top division of international cup.
Winners of small countries like Paraguay has no chances to compete in top division international cup.
Too much difference between first division of small countries with other big countries.
Winners of small countries like Paraguay has no chances to compete in top division international cup.
Too much difference between first division of small countries with other big countries.
Ranking should not be influenced by arcade and friendlies, but only by official games! The only exceptions are the NT and U21 teams
Winners of small countries like Paraguay has no chances to compete in top division international cup.
Yes, they problably can't compete. At the same time - should we tell them - no you can't fight for that cup? None of the champions from small countries can compete intop tier international cup?
Yes, they problably can't compete. At the same time - should we tell them - no you can't fight for that cup? None of the champions from small countries can compete intop tier international cup?
True. Rankings should be official games, so you can use it for this kind of things.
My idea: Use your system but differentiate leagues based on average rating, not the number of divisions in the country. That way it's as fair as possible.
But keep the guaranteed spot in the highest ranked tournament for the champions, so if a top team is locked into a small country league with low ratings they can still compete with the best.
By the way, Bulgaria has more users than Peru but less divisions. Your idea wouldn't be fair in that way too.
Also, users count/number of divisions does not tell the whole story about country's level. What if in the future owners decide to start region specific marketing campaign in, for example, Bulgaria? We will have more divisions and now 2nd division would be is 2nd out of 4/5 divisions instead 2nd out of 3 despite the level of the league will remain the same for at least year or two.
This is not entirely hypothetical, if there really is an advertising campaign it will certainly be more successful in some countries than others so some countries will have more new divisions with no real reflection on the quality of the upper divisions.
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But keep the guaranteed spot in the highest ranked tournament for the champions, so if a top team is locked into a small country league with low ratings they can still compete with the best.
By the way, Bulgaria has more users than Peru but less divisions. Your idea wouldn't be fair in that way too.
Also, users count/number of divisions does not tell the whole story about country's level. What if in the future owners decide to start region specific marketing campaign in, for example, Bulgaria? We will have more divisions and now 2nd division would be is 2nd out of 4/5 divisions instead 2nd out of 3 despite the level of the league will remain the same for at least year or two.
This is not entirely hypothetical, if there really is an advertising campaign it will certainly be more successful in some countries than others so some countries will have more new divisions with no real reflection on the quality of the upper divisions.
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I can't talk in name of everybody, but I am sure that competing in a cup I have 20-30 points of difference would not be fun at all. No way to compete in any whey nor tactically thinking.
That's why my idea is good in this sense.
I want to compete in a cup with countries similar to mine, don't need to compete with poland.
Thats why a Libertadores (1st level) Sudamericana (2nd level) with countries with my similar context, as it is in real world would way much better.
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Another Idea
Hattrick, they have a cup system that works like this.
Everybody plays un the 1st level CUP
when you loose, you don't eliminate, you go down to the 2nd level CUP bracket.
If you loose there, you get down to the 3rd level CUP bracket.
I don't know how many Level Cup Brackets are there, but it is a nice way also. maybe you can say..
Ok 30 points to 80 points..
80 - 70 1st level
60-69 2nd level
50-59 3rd level
40-49 4th level
30-39- 5th level
Everybody goes in a same cup bracket..
start loosing and you get relegated to lower cup division.
when you loose 4 times, you are eliminated of every cup.
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That's why my idea is good in this sense.
I want to compete in a cup with countries similar to mine, don't need to compete with poland.
Thats why a Libertadores (1st level) Sudamericana (2nd level) with countries with my similar context, as it is in real world would way much better.
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Another Idea
Hattrick, they have a cup system that works like this.
Everybody plays un the 1st level CUP
when you loose, you don't eliminate, you go down to the 2nd level CUP bracket.
If you loose there, you get down to the 3rd level CUP bracket.
I don't know how many Level Cup Brackets are there, but it is a nice way also. maybe you can say..
Ok 30 points to 80 points..
80 - 70 1st level
60-69 2nd level
50-59 3rd level
40-49 4th level
30-39- 5th level
Everybody goes in a same cup bracket..
start loosing and you get relegated to lower cup division.
when you loose 4 times, you are eliminated of every cup.
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Every system will have pros and cons.
Use your system but differentiate leagues based on average rating, not the number of divisions in the country. That way it's as fair as possible.
You can have a very strong team in a league with 11 weak teams, so the avg rating of the league would be small and strong team would play with weakers.
But keep the guaranteed spot in the highest ranked tournament for the champions, so if a top team is locked into a small country league with low ratings they can still compete with the best.
Yea, I thought that is a must, to keep every country champion in top tier league, but you can read above, not everyone thinks the same.
By the way, Bulgaria has more users than Peru but less divisions. Your idea wouldn't be fair in that way too.
That's a good call, I think that algorithm would be better taking not all division to math, but number of division without last one, that would be much more fair. Need to test it!
Use your system but differentiate leagues based on average rating, not the number of divisions in the country. That way it's as fair as possible.
You can have a very strong team in a league with 11 weak teams, so the avg rating of the league would be small and strong team would play with weakers.
But keep the guaranteed spot in the highest ranked tournament for the champions, so if a top team is locked into a small country league with low ratings they can still compete with the best.
Yea, I thought that is a must, to keep every country champion in top tier league, but you can read above, not everyone thinks the same.
By the way, Bulgaria has more users than Peru but less divisions. Your idea wouldn't be fair in that way too.
That's a good call, I think that algorithm would be better taking not all division to math, but number of division without last one, that would be much more fair. Need to test it!
If I will get the data I will make simulations and will share with you.
- each season we can take to cup only user-teams, without bots, in league system there is a risk, that some1 will end the game and become a bot, clearing leagues from bots looks like... look and country leagues, you know how it looks
create a bot killing system, it is needed anyway for "normal" leagues. just reset the bot squad to low level after end of season.
- each season you fight in league to get a better position to start in better international cup level
and what if - as PacoDT stated - you are too weak to play in the strongest levels? you start losing league games so you get lower?
- and yes, you would have some number of trophy levels, same like it is with league system
point is with league system the best is only 1 - winner of highest league because it's a connected system of every league and every team in country, same with national cup
Here you will have different systems that are not connected and have a flawed system of differentiating who is strong and who is weak
As you see from the whole discussion, it's hard to find really good way to create the "groups" that will have equally good teams, club rank is flawed as well because it's hard to build in small countries who have few good/old teams
That's why league system would be far superior here. Even if the starting distribution of teams between levels would be flawed (some would be too weak for level x, some would be too good for level y) then it would sort it out by itself. Cup system will never sort itself out, you will have the same issue in every edition.
create a bot killing system, it is needed anyway for "normal" leagues. just reset the bot squad to low level after end of season.
- each season you fight in league to get a better position to start in better international cup level
and what if - as PacoDT stated - you are too weak to play in the strongest levels? you start losing league games so you get lower?
- and yes, you would have some number of trophy levels, same like it is with league system
point is with league system the best is only 1 - winner of highest league because it's a connected system of every league and every team in country, same with national cup
Here you will have different systems that are not connected and have a flawed system of differentiating who is strong and who is weak
As you see from the whole discussion, it's hard to find really good way to create the "groups" that will have equally good teams, club rank is flawed as well because it's hard to build in small countries who have few good/old teams
That's why league system would be far superior here. Even if the starting distribution of teams between levels would be flawed (some would be too weak for level x, some would be too good for level y) then it would sort it out by itself. Cup system will never sort itself out, you will have the same issue in every edition.
You can have a very strong team in a league with 11 weak teams, so the avg rating of the league would be small and strong team would play with weakers.
Why would you look at league average rating when considering setting team strenght for competition levels? If anything it would make sense to list the teams from strongest to weakest based on average season rating
Why would you look at league average rating when considering setting team strenght for competition levels? If anything it would make sense to list the teams from strongest to weakest based on average season rating
Only way for it to be fair would be to base it on team ratings, but even that comes with problems.
create a bot killing system, it is needed anyway for "normal" leagues. just reset the bot squad to low level after end of season.
+1 that's what I already suggested, reseting bots to make them easy to defeat and push them down season by season.
That's why league system would be far superior here. Even if the starting distribution of teams between levels would be flawed (some would be too weak for level x, some would be too good for level y) then it would sort it out by itself. Cup system will never sort itself out, you will have the same issue in every edition.
Looking and whole sokker world, I don't know for sure how any teams becoms bots during the season, I mean from 7-8k users how many, 4-5k are here longer than a season, rest of the team are just replacing other disappearing teams? You know what I mean, such league system would be too much affected by that fact.
Other thing is we also don't want a situation when some1 just forgets about country league, playing in lower division and pushing all the efforts just for international cup. That could result in situation where you have teams in low country league and at the same time in high international league. Not cool. So yes, fight every season for that.
If/when that cup becomes official game - even if your team doesn't have much chances - you could still earn better playing with stronger teams, that would be a reward.
So, I'm still thinking league system is also not ideal.
+1 that's what I already suggested, reseting bots to make them easy to defeat and push them down season by season.
That's why league system would be far superior here. Even if the starting distribution of teams between levels would be flawed (some would be too weak for level x, some would be too good for level y) then it would sort it out by itself. Cup system will never sort itself out, you will have the same issue in every edition.
Looking and whole sokker world, I don't know for sure how any teams becoms bots during the season, I mean from 7-8k users how many, 4-5k are here longer than a season, rest of the team are just replacing other disappearing teams? You know what I mean, such league system would be too much affected by that fact.
Other thing is we also don't want a situation when some1 just forgets about country league, playing in lower division and pushing all the efforts just for international cup. That could result in situation where you have teams in low country league and at the same time in high international league. Not cool. So yes, fight every season for that.
If/when that cup becomes official game - even if your team doesn't have much chances - you could still earn better playing with stronger teams, that would be a reward.
So, I'm still thinking league system is also not ideal.