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Subject: Bargain / Robbed topic 2.0
1.5mill €
Sulev Saarsepp, starost: 27
klub: Async Futuriest, državljanstvo: Eesti
vrijednost : 1 071 500 €
plaća: 12 725 €
božanski [17] nivo forme
sjajan [13] u taktičkoj disciplini
visina: 178 cm, weight: 80.8 kg, BMI: 25.5
impresivan [11] u izdržljivosti nedovoljan [2] na vratima
sjajan [13] u brzini odličan [10] u obrani
izvanredan [12] u tehnici odličan [10] u vezi
izvanzemaljski [16] u dodavanju dovoljan [6] u napadu
Statistika:
Sulev Saarsepp, starost: 27
klub: Async Futuriest, državljanstvo: Eesti
vrijednost : 1 071 500 €
plaća: 12 725 €
božanski [17] nivo forme
sjajan [13] u taktičkoj disciplini
visina: 178 cm, weight: 80.8 kg, BMI: 25.5
impresivan [11] u izdržljivosti nedovoljan [2] na vratima
sjajan [13] u brzini odličan [10] u obrani
izvanredan [12] u tehnici odličan [10] u vezi
izvanzemaljski [16] u dodavanju dovoljan [6] u napadu
Statistika:
Svante Lysemose, alder: 32
klub: Rishøj IF, land: Danmark
værdi : 13 156 000 kr.
løn: 269 800 kr.
udmærket [10] form
solid [8] taktisk disciplin
højde: 177 cm, vægt: 78.7 kg, BMI: 25.12
advarsler:
formidabel [11] kondition utilfredsstillende [2] målmandsspil
genial [14] hurtighed formidabel [11] tacklinger
guddommelig [17] teknik udødelig [16] spilfordeling
magisk [15] pasninger meget god [9] afslutninger
2.1... owner told me recently magical pace.... owner is My biggest rival.... did I Rob him bad?
Sytar Dokoli, alder: 30
klub: Rishøj IF, land: Shqipëria
værdi : 9 952 000 kr.
løn: 231 800 kr.
god [7] form
solid [8] taktisk disciplin
højde: 171 cm, vægt: 68.8 kg, BMI: 23.53
advarsler:
formidabel [11] kondition tragisk [0] målmandsspil
udødelig [16] hurtighed guddommelig [17] tacklinger
solid [8] teknik god [7] spilfordeling
solid [8] pasninger acceptabel [6] afslutninger
And this one 1.25 m
(edited)
klub: Rishøj IF, land: Danmark
værdi : 13 156 000 kr.
løn: 269 800 kr.
udmærket [10] form
solid [8] taktisk disciplin
højde: 177 cm, vægt: 78.7 kg, BMI: 25.12
advarsler:
formidabel [11] kondition utilfredsstillende [2] målmandsspil
genial [14] hurtighed formidabel [11] tacklinger
guddommelig [17] teknik udødelig [16] spilfordeling
magisk [15] pasninger meget god [9] afslutninger
2.1... owner told me recently magical pace.... owner is My biggest rival.... did I Rob him bad?
Sytar Dokoli, alder: 30
klub: Rishøj IF, land: Shqipëria
værdi : 9 952 000 kr.
løn: 231 800 kr.
god [7] form
solid [8] taktisk disciplin
højde: 171 cm, vægt: 68.8 kg, BMI: 23.53
advarsler:
formidabel [11] kondition tragisk [0] målmandsspil
udødelig [16] hurtighed guddommelig [17] tacklinger
solid [8] teknik god [7] spilfordeling
solid [8] pasninger acceptabel [6] afslutninger
And this one 1.25 m
(edited)
You could get better players by compromising on age, loosing the same.... look My players... ill lose the same on 3 seasons with them as you with yours
3 is excessive..... I have a only somewhat decent 2nd .. 21 yo Brilliant trained myself with formation training and if others Are injured real training ... then if it really happens a gk injury, i can use him half match and buy new.... trimming Costs is best
12,5M €, was a bit surprised, am I wrong to think this is a good price?
Aldis Tomp, age: 22
country: Eesti
value : 950 500 €
wage: 12 025 €
divine [17] form
divine [17] tactical discipline
height: 177 cm, weight: 82.9 kg, BMI: 26.46
formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
incredible [13] pace excellent [10] defender
incredible [13] technique incredible [13] playmaker
incredible [13] passing good [7] striker
Aldis Tomp, age: 22
country: Eesti
value : 950 500 €
wage: 12 025 €
divine [17] form
divine [17] tactical discipline
height: 177 cm, weight: 82.9 kg, BMI: 26.46
formidable [11] stamina tragic [0] keeper
incredible [13] pace excellent [10] defender
incredible [13] technique incredible [13] playmaker
incredible [13] passing good [7] striker
I think it's a good price if you compare with other transfers of his type. On the other hand, this one will still need a lot of training to be competitive in your A-team and on the TL he will never be worth significantly more... So for me he gives no sportive advantage and no training advantage (no money) so maybe a bad decision to buy. So, not a bad price, but maybe a bad buy (in my world, my thoughts of the game offcourse).
If you compare with my player who was on announcements for some time for example :
Ignacy Maszkiewicz, age: 22, height: 175 cm
value: 736 250 €, wage: 13 025 €
club: FC PaRa, country: Polska
form [8](-3) solid, tactical discipline [12] outstanding
stamina [11] formidable, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [15] magical, defender [15] magical
technique [9] very good, playmaker [9] very good
passing [10] excellent, striker [7] good
If you give this one 5 seasons of training, like that winger he will sell for 4 M more and this one will soon be valuable in your A-team too. That's double profit against no profit on any domain.
Ignacy Maszkiewicz, age: 22, height: 175 cm
value: 736 250 €, wage: 13 025 €
club: FC PaRa, country: Polska
form [8](-3) solid, tactical discipline [12] outstanding
stamina [11] formidable, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [15] magical, defender [15] magical
technique [9] very good, playmaker [9] very good
passing [10] excellent, striker [7] good
If you give this one 5 seasons of training, like that winger he will sell for 4 M more and this one will soon be valuable in your A-team too. That's double profit against no profit on any domain.
4.3 mln euro
I think it is a big robbery
Justus Trofast, age: 17
club: Hell Town, country: Sverige
value : 1 110 003 Kč
wage: 19 501 Kč
very good [9] form
good [7] tactical discipline
height: 193 cm, weight: 92.4 kg, BMI: 24.81
tragic [0] stamina tragic [0] keeper
weak [4] pace weak [4] defender
average [5] technique adequate [6] playmaker
average [5] passing weak [4] striker
(edited)
I think it is a big robbery
Justus Trofast, age: 17
club: Hell Town, country: Sverige
value : 1 110 003 Kč
wage: 19 501 Kč
very good [9] form
good [7] tactical discipline
height: 193 cm, weight: 92.4 kg, BMI: 24.81
tragic [0] stamina tragic [0] keeper
weak [4] pace weak [4] defender
average [5] technique adequate [6] playmaker
average [5] passing weak [4] striker
(edited)
Estimations for young players provided by your site are often pretty bad.
Example, I have this player, 3 weeks ago I paid 2.5M for him:
Dusan Ulmanu, age: 17, height: 180 cm
value: 294 000 zł, wage: 3 900 zł
club: Mikoos Team, country: România
form [13](+1) incredible, tactical discipline [6](+1) adequate
stamina [4] weak, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [6] adequate, defender [2] unsatisfactory
technique [5] average, playmaker [9] very good
passing [2] unsatisfactory, striker [2] unsatisfactory
Your site gives me "proximity price" 44k euro, "medium price" 84k euro.
I know he has great talent (that's why I paid this much for him) and I will make millions on him, so the current "market" price doesn't matter to me. I understand your site can't take talent into account. I don't expect the market price would be 2.5M now, maybe something like 1M average (for "used" player without any talent info).
That being said, transfers taken for comparison on your site are terrible in his case.
https://www.sktables.org/prices?skills=4,1,6,2,5,9,2,2&age=17
Sprela - that must be a bug with collecting transfers, he was sold as 17yo before the age change.
Abbondanzieri - ok to compare with my player, even better when looking at skills alone, at the same time the only one from the list sold for high price.
Pevida - mid sumskill 22, week 4 - much weaker than my player. At this age for good talented player 1 week ~= 1 skill. 2 skills difference + 3 weeks of training makes enormous difference in price. Same for all the others:
Lugi - mid sumskill 20, week 3
Risom - mid sumskill 20, week 2
Szkutnik - mid sumskill 22, week 4
Dutruel - mid sumskill 21, week 4
Hemsky - mid sumskill 22, week 3
Enrique - mid sumskill 20, week 2
Gamberini - mid sumskill 22, week 4
Problems:
- your algorithm tries to compare my (relatively high sumskill) player with other players that have similar skill distribution... but it can't find players on similar level, so it finds players that are worse, as they are much more common. When looking at 16-17yo ~mids it's much better to look at sumskills (ofc it doesn't make it perfect), with small addition of looking at low/high pace + generally on how unequal the skill are.
- looking at transfers that are up to 3 weeks ahead without (?) correcting it
- players that are fresh from youth school often have different prices compared to "used" ones, the price then often depends on overall sumskill, as higher sumskill increases chances for better talent.
Looking at players with 23-25 mid sumskill sold in the 1st week of last seasons I think it's clear my player is worth more than 84k euro :p
https://geston.smallhost.pl/sokker/transfers_db.php?ssnsfr=67&ssnsto=70&weekto=1&agemin=17&agemax=17&attmax=3&midssmin=23&midssmax=25&order=24&page=1
Example, I have this player, 3 weeks ago I paid 2.5M for him:
Dusan Ulmanu, age: 17, height: 180 cm
value: 294 000 zł, wage: 3 900 zł
club: Mikoos Team, country: România
form [13](+1) incredible, tactical discipline [6](+1) adequate
stamina [4] weak, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [6] adequate, defender [2] unsatisfactory
technique [5] average, playmaker [9] very good
passing [2] unsatisfactory, striker [2] unsatisfactory
Your site gives me "proximity price" 44k euro, "medium price" 84k euro.
I know he has great talent (that's why I paid this much for him) and I will make millions on him, so the current "market" price doesn't matter to me. I understand your site can't take talent into account. I don't expect the market price would be 2.5M now, maybe something like 1M average (for "used" player without any talent info).
That being said, transfers taken for comparison on your site are terrible in his case.
https://www.sktables.org/prices?skills=4,1,6,2,5,9,2,2&age=17
Sprela - that must be a bug with collecting transfers, he was sold as 17yo before the age change.
Abbondanzieri - ok to compare with my player, even better when looking at skills alone, at the same time the only one from the list sold for high price.
Pevida - mid sumskill 22, week 4 - much weaker than my player. At this age for good talented player 1 week ~= 1 skill. 2 skills difference + 3 weeks of training makes enormous difference in price. Same for all the others:
Lugi - mid sumskill 20, week 3
Risom - mid sumskill 20, week 2
Szkutnik - mid sumskill 22, week 4
Dutruel - mid sumskill 21, week 4
Hemsky - mid sumskill 22, week 3
Enrique - mid sumskill 20, week 2
Gamberini - mid sumskill 22, week 4
Problems:
- your algorithm tries to compare my (relatively high sumskill) player with other players that have similar skill distribution... but it can't find players on similar level, so it finds players that are worse, as they are much more common. When looking at 16-17yo ~mids it's much better to look at sumskills (ofc it doesn't make it perfect), with small addition of looking at low/high pace + generally on how unequal the skill are.
- looking at transfers that are up to 3 weeks ahead without (?) correcting it
- players that are fresh from youth school often have different prices compared to "used" ones, the price then often depends on overall sumskill, as higher sumskill increases chances for better talent.
Looking at players with 23-25 mid sumskill sold in the 1st week of last seasons I think it's clear my player is worth more than 84k euro :p
https://geston.smallhost.pl/sokker/transfers_db.php?ssnsfr=67&ssnsto=70&weekto=1&agemin=17&agemax=17&attmax=3&midssmin=23&midssmax=25&order=24&page=1
Also that guy is from Senegal so managers tend yo pay more, because they guess they will get some training from u21 NT.. It's not a big difference in training (especially if you're in lower league) but the difference between valuation is big..
Estimations for young players provided by your site are often pretty bad.
Even if I can be agree with few things - larger database and algorithm could be improved - I’ve already compare and test many estimations against final bid. often pretty bad is a definitive opinion, not so often true.
Talent could distord prices. Like injuries, nt player, form, xp or bmi, screenshots, or anything else… But skills distrib still remain concrete criteria and it's not base on speculative (talent could be a fake, injuries have an end, xp/form can be "reset"...)
To bring back to your player case, it’s ok. He’s got proven talent, you are happy, you can make value. But it doesn’t mean it’s worth millions on market now just because of its future skills. Estimation is base on current age/skills like any players in this topic. If you're not interested in the « current market», so don't be.
I ve noted your points.
1) Looking at sumskills of position is opinionated. It’s a false-good idea because you ending with very different prices for many different skills for a particular / artificial position. Finally we need to search and sort again the result, judging « similarities » base on its own expectations.
2) My own transfers db is not enough large and i compare skills by skills, so I need to extend to 3 weeks to catch more players for comparison. Not ideal, of course. But It doesn’t mean that extending skills criteria is better than extending weeks search :-p
3) Sure, in the end, talent could be a criteria. But without any proof of talent, skills distrib is far more concrete than any speculations.
Finally, I try to search in your db similar skilled players judging from its « mid » skills. No surprise, i find only 2 results. Position sumskills is restrictive and your player is detected as « wing » so I prefer to remove position sumskills.
It’s ending to this :
geston db query
No surprise, median price is closer to 100k than millions. And certainly, most of similar players didn’t even appear in this search for one reason : they are not even sell.
Thanks for your feedback.
(edited)
(edited)
Even if I can be agree with few things - larger database and algorithm could be improved - I’ve already compare and test many estimations against final bid. often pretty bad is a definitive opinion, not so often true.
Talent could distord prices. Like injuries, nt player, form, xp or bmi, screenshots, or anything else… But skills distrib still remain concrete criteria and it's not base on speculative (talent could be a fake, injuries have an end, xp/form can be "reset"...)
To bring back to your player case, it’s ok. He’s got proven talent, you are happy, you can make value. But it doesn’t mean it’s worth millions on market now just because of its future skills. Estimation is base on current age/skills like any players in this topic. If you're not interested in the « current market», so don't be.
I ve noted your points.
1) Looking at sumskills of position is opinionated. It’s a false-good idea because you ending with very different prices for many different skills for a particular / artificial position. Finally we need to search and sort again the result, judging « similarities » base on its own expectations.
2) My own transfers db is not enough large and i compare skills by skills, so I need to extend to 3 weeks to catch more players for comparison. Not ideal, of course. But It doesn’t mean that extending skills criteria is better than extending weeks search :-p
3) Sure, in the end, talent could be a criteria. But without any proof of talent, skills distrib is far more concrete than any speculations.
Finally, I try to search in your db similar skilled players judging from its « mid » skills. No surprise, i find only 2 results. Position sumskills is restrictive and your player is detected as « wing » so I prefer to remove position sumskills.
It’s ending to this :
geston db query
No surprise, median price is closer to 100k than millions. And certainly, most of similar players didn’t even appear in this search for one reason : they are not even sell.
Thanks for your feedback.
(edited)
(edited)
Well with 16-17yo players skills are as important as proven top talent [3.0-3.5] or whether the players is fresh out of youth school and being re-sold
Sure.
But I ve seen many sells at millions without any screenshots or poof of talent, so I suppose skills are just enough :-)
On the other hand, I recently sell myself a junior 1 million € without talent confirmed, and two juniors with proven max talent 3.3 at 1 euro, just because of poor skills distribution, no matter the sum skills.
(edited)
But I ve seen many sells at millions without any screenshots or poof of talent, so I suppose skills are just enough :-)
On the other hand, I recently sell myself a junior 1 million € without talent confirmed, and two juniors with proven max talent 3.3 at 1 euro, just because of poor skills distribution, no matter the sum skills.
(edited)