Subject: [Idea] Wage tweeking stamina

hello everyone

I can see that player-wages have been raised considerably since I last played because of more matches per week. While this certainly is ok, this leads to a problem for small teams, as new teams don't get their money from matches. Their stadiums are not big enough and they are mostly playing against bots anyway, so their money comes from sponsor money and that has also only negatively changed due to the recent mood changes.

Now wages aren't that much of a problem for players with skills below excellent. But they very much become a problem for players with max stamina and there's no way in the game to a) limit the max stamina or b) actively lower the stamina of our players. So basically by training stamina, new teams can screw themselves over and will be surprised in a new season and have to sell their players because of unsustainable wages just because of a few weeks of stamina training.
Example: Stamina 11 3400 Euro wage for 11 stamina with skills 10 - 9 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 5 - 0
Stamina lower 2450 Euro wage for 10 - 10 - 9 - 8 - 6 - 4 -4 -2
Now examples are never perfect, because the wage is only adapted at the beginning of the season and subs do matter as well, but I checked a lot and I can clearly see, that the final 1-2 levels in stamina can have a huge impact on wages of players that new teams would buy of maybe up to +50% of the total wage.

So to address this stamina trap I would suggest to reduce the impact stamina has on player value and thus wages. It should be ok, if it's half or one third of what it is now; thus also showing, that stamina isn't worth the same as other skills, as it can just be bumped easily in the universe of this game.
I chose this over other options, because I think it's a very small change, that could easily be made within the current system of calculations.
(edited)

I don't see any connection between stamina and wages...
I think that the wages are good as they are.
Tje only thing that's necessary is better starting teams with bigger starting stadiums (10k), more starting funds... 2M in stead of 500k, better starting staff and better starting players with at least 5 decent trainees. And support that with a decent tutorial, and better bot team supporter base and most problems will be gone. This way, starting managers can focus on all aspects of the game in stead of financial structure building for 3 to 5 irl years. All the rest is irrelevant.

Big teams aren't affected, as stamina is capped at 11. There is a clear connection between stamina and wages, as stamina counts the same to wages as any other skill does. Meaning a stamina of 10 and over will affect player salary of up to 50% as I posted in my main post.

Also I'm not sure if people still understand how low the sponsormoney is for starter teams. If you have about 20 players in your starter team, then 2450 Euro per player is about the max you can afford and this will cover 2/3s of your sponsor money; making you able to have coaches for the rest and either saving entrance fees or using them to pay the youth school (15000 Euro average per week).
- Bigger stadium only costs more, there will not be more people coming as long as you don't have a fanclub. It's actively counter-productive
- Higher starting money doesn't let you afford your wages. So the problem here isn't solved with it, as you would just use up the money and have the same problem afterwards
- better starting team, yes, I agree, doesn't solve this problem though, as better starting team will also cost higher wages.
(edited)

Erik Bisschop, age: 20, height: 176 cm
value: 200 500 €, wage: 1 500 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
form [13](+2) incredible, tactical discipline [6](+1) adequate

stamina [9] very good, keeper [8] solid
pace [9] very good, defender [2] unsatisfactory
technique [1] hopeless, playmaker [2] unsatisfactory
passing [1] hopeless, striker [1] hopeless

Know that keeper has an enormous impact on the wage...look at this player and his wage and tell me, what again is the problem about wage and stamina?

Another example of one of my players...

Stéphane Crabeels, age: 19, height: 187 cm
value: 396 250 €, wage: 2 675 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
form [18](+1) superdivine, tactical discipline [11] formidable

stamina [7](+1) good, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [13] incredible, defender [9] very good
technique [5] average, playmaker [9] very good
passing [8] solid, striker [8] solid

As long as the skills don't go over brilliant, magical, wages are no problem.

This guy with 13 pace was 10 at the ending of the last season, when wages were calculated. His wage will instantly double next season. Before posting I have checked dozens of players, I'm absolutely sure of the effect formidable stamina has on wages. If you're unsure about it, check this player you posted at the start of the next season.

this is a player where I know he receives zero training (team has no main coach or assistants, as the team cannot afford them):
Kristian Joest, age 24
Stamina 11 other skills: 5, 10, 7, 1, 3, 10, 4; wage: 3550 Euro

Consider this: a new manager starts with a better team, they have talented players. Then they train 3 weeks of stamina to make them perform better in matches, so their players have formidable stamina; now the beginning of the next season this team will be so expensive (+50% wages), that he has to sell half of it and cripple his process, just because of a little stamina training. This isn't fair to new players. I will not fall into the trap, I will not train stamina, because I know of the crippling effect, but I think the game should just remove this trap, as it only affects new and small clubs and there is absolutely no reason for it to be there. And because it's a trap that is now a lot worse because of the wage-changes that didn't consider the small and new teams.
(edited)

Man...formidable stamina costs maximum 1000k wage... I really don't think that is an issue...

"So basically by training stamina, new teams can screw themselves over"
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If a team is training stamina, they probably have no idea what they are doing and they will indeed screw themselves over (regardless of wages). The problem you are bringing into attention is more about information, it's about new players not learning how to play (and not asking questions).

A more proper solution would be to make an official Tutorial for new users... but that solution has already been suggested in the past, and we still haven't got anything.

@Dtox9 correct, 22 times 1000 wage and that is 50% increase to what a beginner team that replaced the squad to the best he can afford would have at the beginning of the next season. I know that it's nothing for older teams. That's why it's a "safe" thing to change to make sure beginners don't step into the trap.

@Godscar. Yes, we need a good tutorial for sure. But why not both? Who loses something if stamina doesn't influence wage the same way any other skill does? It's literally a "/3" addition in an existing formula that would remove something that already shouldn't be a problem in the first place.
(edited)

I don't think you get it...
If you have a player with any formidable skill, stamina will cost you the least...
So if formidable stamina is a problem for you to pay wages, then what is your plan? Buy 10 tragic player and train them to be adequate?

The formula for stamina wage impact is different than the formula for other skills wage impact.

Max stamina (which is 12.00, but still displayed as 11) costs about 1625 euro in wages.
12.00 in normal skill (not gk) costs about 1200 euro in wages.

Then can you explain this player's wage?


Lech Religa
, age 19
value: 149 000 €
wage: 1 675 €

formidable [11] stamina hopeless [1] keeper
unsatisfactory [2] pace poor [3] defender
average [5] technique very good [9] playmaker
excellent [10] passing poor [3] striker

Do you really need to ask? :p

Obviously his skills were much worse when his wage was calculated 9 weeks ago.

Yeah, probably. But still...to say stamina is overpaid is a bridge too far imo...

@Mikoos so it's actually MORE expensive than other skills? That makes no sense to me. Thank you for the clarification, I didn't know this distinction.

It's really just too much for a new club with a limited budget to pay for a player that in game isn't really better. If a player reached high stamina, because a new manager did not ask an experienced manager for every move he makes (the rules do not state things like this) for maybe 2-3 weeks, then there's no way to lower his stamina for the team, making him irreversibly more expensive due to the passive training. Especially when new managers actually get good starting players at some point, this just seems way too punishing to me.

So you do agree that a tutorial or some good starting advice might actually be the better option, making this issue irrelevant?