Subject: About skills

As determine football player's skill is a thing pretty subjective and really attached to "personal opinion", what about we discuss about how to define skills?

I could start with this:

Based at http://whoscored.com (as greg referenced), they use adjectives like "strong", "very strong", "week", and so on.
How are you guys relating that with the -3,..., +3 system, like this?
"very strong" == +3
"strong" == +2
etc ...

Or do you guys have another way to do it, for example assuming things like "if defender, the player automatically has +3 in defender/pace" to players to be more "sokker-like"?

Let me take one example from Brazil NT.
Dani Alves - Defender (Right, Center) - Value 18M euro.

From the website above:
+ Strengths
Passing - Very Strong ----- (passing)
Key passes - Very Strong ----- (passing + playmaker)
Crossing - Strong ----- (passing)
Dribbling - Strong ----- (technique)
Holding on to the ball - Strong ----- (technique)

Aerial Duels - Weak -------- (??? Maybe striker?)

If I create a player with that value and +3 passing, +3 playmaker, +2 technique and -2 striker, it turn out like this:

Dani Alves , age 31
value: 10 738 000 R$
wage: 116 600 R$, superdivine [17] form
height: 173 cm, weight: 64 kg,
BMI: 21.38

formidable [11] stamina average [5] keeper
brilliant [14] pace brilliant [14] defender
unearthly [16] technique divine [17] playmaker
divine [17] passing outstanding [12] striker

Pretty bad for a defender in sokker, don't you agree?

yup

he definitely doesn't deserved such high tech, pm and passing :p

also he's much faster than brilliant...

that's why I don't like the way this simulation is done

for example older players have low values, always had, so their skills will suck. the value doesn't represent only the abilities of players, but also their age and how long will they keep on playing...

just look at this:

Pirlo - 7.5m euro
Xavi - 10m euro

Lucas Moura - 33m euro

now, which player would you want in your team - Lucas, or Xavi/Pirlo? :p

We could create an "age adjustment" parameter.

Just for example:
18-22 --- value - 10M euro.
22-26 --- value - 5M euro.
26 - 30 years --- value does not change.
31 - 32 years --- value + 5M euro.
33 - 34 years --- value + 10M euro.
35 - 36 years --- value + 15M euro.

Of course we need to calibrate that.
(edited)

that would make more sense :)

I definitely feel that would be a good suggestion to put forward to greg because there are some players who have been devalued without justification.

maybe we should look at skills in fifa 14? it could be helpful to compare players

good idea, but majority of the players that i have seen(just the England squad) have pretty unrealistic skills... no way Baines has 17 pace & tech and Sterling also has 17 pace & only 15 tech... most of them are overrated and the real diference between the star players and the rest is not reflected... no way that Wilshere or Henderson are better players then Gerrard, just because they are younger... the sumskill of a normal player should be a bit lower and only the best 10 players of that position must have 17 or 17++ skills...

at Euro 2012 simulation Phil Jones had divine technique, superdivine defender and brilliant passing

it just makes no sense

the users who made the players skills are :

1. very lazy & not giving a damn
2. clearly not understanding to much of footbal & not very clever to thing getting some help from thoose who do

or maybe both :D

The problem is that what you think is very subjective and does not reflect (necessarily) the reality.

You think someone is slow, or is bad, but in reality that guy is (in theory) one of the best at his country.

The real problem is that this system , chosen by greg and damian, makes it impossible to prepare proper skills, because it is based on transfermarkt value, which takes into account not only form and skills, but also the age, lenght of contract, value of previous transfer etc.

I agree, but without doubt it is a starting point. I just think we could improve it, if greg allow us to do it.

so after you in reality Baines is one of the fastest and most talented players in the world ? he has a very good speed for a full-back i admit but no way he has the same speed and BETTER tech then Chamberlain, Sterling, Rooney or Sturridge... Baines with 15-16 speed and 14-15 tech would be just right for me... if a player like Wilshere has 30 milion value at transfermarkt doesn't means his better then Gerrard... and this is not my subjective opinion... most of england fans and specialists say that Rooney and Gerrard are probably the best england players in activity... surely Stevie is not at the form from 5-6 years ago, but still he's still 2 classes above any english CM... same goes with other older great player like Pirlo, Xavi, etc... now to tell you my subjective opinion : only england CM comparable with Stevie from his time was Scholes, and under them at some distance Lampard... and i support Man Utd not Liverpool to be clear

You are missing the point here.

Ok, let's assume that you are a specialist in England football. Now let's assume even more, let's say you are a specialist (and knows EVERY single player for all European NT), right?

Now, what about the other teams? Who will analyse it so deeply as you are doing with England / whole Europe?

Let's face the problem, greg needs to populate a huge database of players, and this is a game, not a real simulator. Of course some bizarre things will happen, our objective is to try minimize those cases with a scalable method.

Now, what about the other teams? Who will analyse it so deeply as you are doing with England / whole Europe?

FIFA/Football Manager;)

That is a interesting idea. Do you know any website with a database from those games?