Subject: About skills

Guys, cesc85 and I are developing an excel spreadsheet to do the work. It is working really nice!

Some defenders before and after (in brackets) defender skill adjustment.

"David Luiz
brilliant [14] in pace - brilliant [14] in defender (unearthly [16] in defender)
incredible [13] in technique - outstanding [12] in playmaker
incredible [13] in passing - outstanding [12] in striker"

"Thiago Silva
brilliant [14] in pace - unearthly [16] in defender (superdivine [18] in defender)
incredible [13] in technique - incredible [13] in playmaker
incredible [13] in passing - formidable [11] in striker"

"Vincent Kompany
incredible [13] in pace - magical [15] in defender (superdivine [18] in defender)
incredible [13] in technique - formidable [11] in playmaker
incredible [13] in passing - excellent [10] in striker"

"Mats Hummels
outstanding [12] in pace - magical [15] in defender (superdivine [18] in defender)
outstanding [12] in technique - brilliant [14] in playmaker
brilliant [14] in passing - excellent [10] in striker"

"Tim Cahill
outstanding [12] in pace - incredible [13] in defender (brilliant [14] in defender)
incredible [13] in technique - brilliant [14] in playmaker
brilliant [14] in passing - incredible [13] in striker"

"Leonardo Bonucci
incredible [13] in pace - brilliant [14] in defender (unearthly [16] in defender)
outstanding [12] in technique - incredible [13] in playmaker
outstanding [12] in passing - very good [9] in striker"

"Piqué
formidable [11] in pace - magical [15] in defender (superdivine [18] in defender)
outstanding [12] in technique - incredible [13] in playmaker
brilliant [14] in passing - very good [9] in striker"


Just want to say that everything was generated automaticaly.

I see that defenders would need more pace also.

X

Unfortunately there is a problem with this that you have yet to factor in and that is the skills are generated by the Transfermarkt value, so we would also have to find out which values give a certain default skill, and even with that, from that default skill there is only a -3 to +3 boundary to adjust players (so it wouldn't be possible to have somebody with very good skill and superdivine, the difference between the skills is too great). For example with your Pique generation if we were to get the default skills generated to be magical [15], we would be able to adjust +3 for superdivine [18] however the lowest we could adjust would be -3 which would give outstanding [12].

Let's try to solve the problem together.

We can try to balance things, and if everything works right, maybe greg can change a little bit how players are generated.

Well i've been playing around with the generation and to be honest it is a bit confusing to understand. For example i generated a goalkeeper that was incredible, i put his keeping, pace and passing -3 and he went up to brilliant!

It looks likes there is some formula behind the generation combined with the valuations, meaning it is going to prove very difficult to define players (such as the ones you have been generating), with the system that is currently implemented.

Edit:
It appears entering a low valuation for a player makes it harder to manipulate their skills

For example i generated a player with valuation of 50 million which gave him a default skill set of unearthly [16]. I then changed it so that;

Pace: -2 Technique: -3 Passing: 0 Defender: +1 playmaker: +1 Scoring: +3

It then generated correctly;

formidable [11] stamina adequate [6] keeper
brilliant [14] pace divine [17] defender
incredible [13] technique divine [17] playmaker
unearthly [16] passing superdivine [17] striker

However if i give the player a valu\tion of 5 million giving him a base skill set of brilliant [14] and i make the same changes as above;

Pace: -2 Technique: -3 Passing: 0 Defender: +1 playmaker: +1 Scoring: +3

It generated;

outstanding [12] pace brilliant [14] defender
formidable [11] technique brilliant [14] playmaker
incredible [13] passing unearthly [16] striker

Which as you can see, the changes that occurred were not the same as what i entered;

Pace: -2 Technique: -3 Passing: -1 Defender: 0 Playmaker: 0 Scoring: +2

===============

It must therefore been such that the valuation has a big influence on how you can adjust the players with -3 to +3, with lower valued players giving less flexibility.
(edited)

But I don't think +1, -3 etc mean exactly 1 skill above, 3 skills below (among other things, because you'd hit the ceiling at 18 and the floor at 0 :) ). I think it takes those numbers to assign weights to each skill, and then it generates skill values such that the sum of skills is equal to a number determined by transfermarket.

In your example, the average skill is 13.33, but only if all levels are exact. If some of those skills have higher sublevels, then it is probably still a 14 player. It more or less respected your relative levels (defending and playmaking higher than passing, etc), probably giving some sizable sub-level to passing and striking, and getting the average right.

(giving a player all -3 should be identical to giving all +3. Your first player should have 6*Unearthly or very close to that in both cases).
(edited)

Probably because the math needs to be done based on the value. When you give -1 to one skill, all others need to increase a little bit to compensate that -1 and maintain the value.

Can't wait to see the Belgians their skills ;-)

I think you're doing a nice job!

Thanks. 50% of the work is from Cesc85 =D

To anyone wanting to help, I just need lists of player's name and player's ID from this website: http://tools.fifaguide.com/database.php

When you search and select a player the url is something like this: http://tools.fifaguide.com/player.php?id=1694519617. To use the spreadsheet the list needs to be:
NAME-ID
C. Ronaldo-1694519617
(edited)

I'll do this for Belgium, I'll make a new topic and post the URL there, good?

Yes! thank you.

Just a head's up.

You will not find goalkeepers in that website, don't need to try.
If you don't find a player there, just give me the name of the player and that's ok.

I simply dont get it. Take the Fifa database, convert it, and regardless of what X or Y thinks about a player, keep those goddamned skills like it has been converted, and thats all.

The key is the "convert it" part. The conversion rule is a decision we (they :P) make, and depending which rule you use, the outcome can lead to very boring simulations or exciting ones.

(So I agree that it's not so important if A thinks player X should be faster or B thinks player Y can't have more technique than player Z. But it does matter that players are overall within skill ranges that will make sense in Sokker's match engine ;-) ).
(edited)

Yes, that what I'm (was) trying to do.
I saw that defenders in general had less defender than strikers technique, so I changed the rule of conversion and now defenders have more defender skill.
Also, as those "simulations" have more "advertisement" purposes, it is good to have better players, with higher skills.

The Fifa (or any other database) is just to don't have all players 6x divine.

Did you add any player ? :P Because I tried with Didier Drogba and now i know how it's working :P