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Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what
Lord Legolas to
All
DevDiary80: “Price is what you pay, value is what you get.”
We have been announcing this for some time and that time has now arrived.
As you know, for many years, disregarding rising costs, inflation, the need to reinvest in the service, we have kept PLUS prices constant.
However, in order to develop the game, provide new features and improve existing ones, we need to adapt to the market and introduce a new price list.
The changes will come into effect at the beginning of October.
But don't worry, we have included some promotions in PLUS's new service delivery model that will allow you to keep your current price up for even another year.
PLUS purchasing models and price lists:
NEW - MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION:
As in many services with which you are familiar, this model will require a credit card and the subscription amount will be charged automatically in advance for the following month.
The standard monthly subscription price is PLN 14.90 or € 3.80/month.
PROMOTION: If you decide to join as a subscriber before the end of November this year (the date of your first card transaction counts) you will receive the special price and a guarantee to keep it for up to another 12 months.
The special price is PLN 8.20 or € 2.10 / month.
How the promotional subscription will work:
- if you have an active PLUS - when you add your credit card, the first payment will be charged and the previously purchased plus will be ‘moved forward one month’. Further payments will not be charged until "old PLUS" expires, and then the promotional price will be maintained until 12 months have passed since the first payment
- if you do not have an active PLUS - the matter is very simple, the first promotional payment will be charged when the card is added, and the promotion will continue for the next 12 months.
Cancellation of subscription::
- You can unsubscribe at any time.
- in this case, you will keep PLUS until the end of the prepaid period, after which it will be switched off.
- if you take advantage of the promotion, subsequently cancel and return to the subscription, the promotional price will no longer applies.
SINGLE PAYMENT:
For those of you who will prefer to stay with your current payment method, packages from 2 months to a year, requiring full payment in advance for the selected period, will still be active.
The new prices are shown in the table above.
--------------------------------------------------------------
It was already about PRICES - so now about VALUES.
TUTORIAL
We realise that the game can be quite difficult for new users.
That's why we will soon be introducing an easily accessible and clear tutorial to help them understand the rules, mechanics and settle into the game.
And while it may not apply directly to those reading this message, I think we can all agree that the increase in the number of users will reflect positively on the game as a whole.
NEW VIEWS
Several sites will be expanded or refreshed very soon. There will be, for example, a ‘flag collector’ display.
TRAINING OF YOUNG PLAYERS
We will soon introduce changes in the way young players are trained, with the aim of improving the balance between playing for results and investing in squad development through training.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The next two are new projects, still in the concept stage, which we will be working on in the coming months but will have to wait a little longer for their full introduction.
However, we want you to know that this work is ongoing and as the projects develop, information about them will be brought to you in further news.
YOUTH SQUAD
You often report that the existing junior school system needs to be changed. In fact, despite changes in various areas, this one has remained untouched. We are aware of the need to adapt youth training to the shorter season. We would also like to develop a number of additions and extensions that will make the junior schools more attractive. The changes are intended to be positive for both club teams and the u21 national teams.
CLUB INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS
At the moment we have the Champions League. Prestigious, but also very closed, accessible only to the strongest teams. What if everyone could take part in an international competition, without exception, regardless of country or league level?
That is what we would like to give you. The opportunity to compete against rivals similar to you from other countries. We believe that, especially for small communities, this will be an excellent occasion to strengthen rivalry and develop the team.
We also make minor changes, adjustments and corrections - that's the maintenance work that allows us to boast high availability and service continuity despite occasional slip-ups - and although you can't see this work we do, it doesn't happen by itself.
That's all for today, I hope to be able to bring you more news and details of further plans soon.
(edited)
We have been announcing this for some time and that time has now arrived.
As you know, for many years, disregarding rising costs, inflation, the need to reinvest in the service, we have kept PLUS prices constant.
However, in order to develop the game, provide new features and improve existing ones, we need to adapt to the market and introduce a new price list.
The changes will come into effect at the beginning of October.
But don't worry, we have included some promotions in PLUS's new service delivery model that will allow you to keep your current price up for even another year.
PLUS purchasing models and price lists:
NEW - MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION:
As in many services with which you are familiar, this model will require a credit card and the subscription amount will be charged automatically in advance for the following month.
The standard monthly subscription price is PLN 14.90 or € 3.80/month.
PROMOTION: If you decide to join as a subscriber before the end of November this year (the date of your first card transaction counts) you will receive the special price and a guarantee to keep it for up to another 12 months.
The special price is PLN 8.20 or € 2.10 / month.
How the promotional subscription will work:
- if you have an active PLUS - when you add your credit card, the first payment will be charged and the previously purchased plus will be ‘moved forward one month’. Further payments will not be charged until "old PLUS" expires, and then the promotional price will be maintained until 12 months have passed since the first payment
- if you do not have an active PLUS - the matter is very simple, the first promotional payment will be charged when the card is added, and the promotion will continue for the next 12 months.
Cancellation of subscription::
- You can unsubscribe at any time.
- in this case, you will keep PLUS until the end of the prepaid period, after which it will be switched off.
- if you take advantage of the promotion, subsequently cancel and return to the subscription, the promotional price will no longer applies.
SINGLE PAYMENT:
For those of you who will prefer to stay with your current payment method, packages from 2 months to a year, requiring full payment in advance for the selected period, will still be active.
The new prices are shown in the table above.
--------------------------------------------------------------
It was already about PRICES - so now about VALUES.
TUTORIAL
We realise that the game can be quite difficult for new users.
That's why we will soon be introducing an easily accessible and clear tutorial to help them understand the rules, mechanics and settle into the game.
And while it may not apply directly to those reading this message, I think we can all agree that the increase in the number of users will reflect positively on the game as a whole.
NEW VIEWS
Several sites will be expanded or refreshed very soon. There will be, for example, a ‘flag collector’ display.
TRAINING OF YOUNG PLAYERS
We will soon introduce changes in the way young players are trained, with the aim of improving the balance between playing for results and investing in squad development through training.
--------------------------------------------------------------
The next two are new projects, still in the concept stage, which we will be working on in the coming months but will have to wait a little longer for their full introduction.
However, we want you to know that this work is ongoing and as the projects develop, information about them will be brought to you in further news.
YOUTH SQUAD
You often report that the existing junior school system needs to be changed. In fact, despite changes in various areas, this one has remained untouched. We are aware of the need to adapt youth training to the shorter season. We would also like to develop a number of additions and extensions that will make the junior schools more attractive. The changes are intended to be positive for both club teams and the u21 national teams.
CLUB INTERNATIONAL COMPETITIONS
At the moment we have the Champions League. Prestigious, but also very closed, accessible only to the strongest teams. What if everyone could take part in an international competition, without exception, regardless of country or league level?
That is what we would like to give you. The opportunity to compete against rivals similar to you from other countries. We believe that, especially for small communities, this will be an excellent occasion to strengthen rivalry and develop the team.
We also make minor changes, adjustments and corrections - that's the maintenance work that allows us to boast high availability and service continuity despite occasional slip-ups - and although you can't see this work we do, it doesn't happen by itself.
That's all for today, I hope to be able to bring you more news and details of further plans soon.
(edited)
In that thread we allow some general discussion about Dev. Diaries. Happy to hear your comments.
We all historical players love sokker, it's part of our daily routine, I fought with my girlfriend several times because I gave more attention to sokker than to her :-)
we were sad about the fate of sokker and now you are giving us new hope.
so: Thanks! :-)
we were sad about the fate of sokker and now you are giving us new hope.
so: Thanks! :-)
First of all, I would like to thanks everyone for their effort to make the game better. And here I post some of my thoughts:
GAME SPIRIT
Game without pay2win - definitely agree
Game engine, tactics and 2d matches - Agree as well, no big changes needed. We need to keep the spirit of the game
Simplicity - I agree that basics of all the main game areas are simple to learn (and they will be especially if Tutorial is implemented)
Moderate game timing - I am worried about the impact of shortening the season.
Community - Activity on forum comes with active managers. That is the core.
CHANGES
Play to win - I am worried about the idea of changing the training. I would need a better explanation behind its idea.
Competition optimization - does this correspond with the idea of training changes? Because adding new competitions would affect the current training system. In general, I am for more competitiveness
Game balance - I agree with new teams having problems to reach higher division. I already stressed the problem of the existence of a huge gap between beginners and old users and I support the idea of improving the starting condition for beginners. Overall these changes will need to be very considered very thoughtfully. I think that that the same assumptions as have been made here, should be done solely about game balance and game style you want to support. Because there is a constant threat that the changes could endanger some of the game styles. I disagree that the system promotes daily trading. I am definitely one of the users who had the most trades in sokker history. I will repeat that arcade matches bug must be fixed and then the possibility of buying and selling players will be reduced significantly. Trading is about risking the resources (money, time, training places, line-up places) to make a profit. It comes with a deep knowledge of market, the abity to predict future trends and a longterm planning. I talk here about the trades which take one season or longer. The shorter trades are possible as well, but they are quite rare. For very young players (16-18yrs) there is a possibility to make a huge money if you have luck on big talent and he pops up fast. But for every such player, there are several players which are robberies for buyers. I keep the database of all best players at this age category several seasons back and I have the prices of first purchase and other resells, so I know what I am talking about. Selling any other players than these youngsters on daily bases doesn´t make enough money to even talk about it. Problem might be only number of trades, but here again i point out to the arcade matches bug
Easy to learn, hard to master - I love to have the freedom of choice how to play the game. For me, it is an absolute priority, so it is great to hear this.
Goals and achievements - I support any changes that motivate users to play the game.
Storytelling - We had many initiatives like that in the Czech community. News about top divisions, national teams, even some yellow journalism. It had faded out with the decrease of active community members. Here I point it to what i said in the Community part.
Bot teams elimination - I guess you mean from the divisions which are higher than the one where are new users added? Well let me express you my experience. I have promoted several times from the lowest (4th Czech division to the top division). For me, the inactive users were pretty much as bad opponents as bot teams. Users who logged in just once in a week or two. They didn't make any changes in match settings. It was easy to prepare against them because I knew what they are going to play. They were not active members of the community. I could not discuss the games with them. All I wanted was to get out of such dead leagues. Just bot team elimination from competitions does not eliminate this problem.
New graphic design and UX - I like the option of keeping the old design and I agree that changes in this area are the must to keep up with the competition
(edited)
GAME SPIRIT
Game without pay2win - definitely agree
Game engine, tactics and 2d matches - Agree as well, no big changes needed. We need to keep the spirit of the game
Simplicity - I agree that basics of all the main game areas are simple to learn (and they will be especially if Tutorial is implemented)
Moderate game timing - I am worried about the impact of shortening the season.
Community - Activity on forum comes with active managers. That is the core.
CHANGES
Play to win - I am worried about the idea of changing the training. I would need a better explanation behind its idea.
Competition optimization - does this correspond with the idea of training changes? Because adding new competitions would affect the current training system. In general, I am for more competitiveness
Game balance - I agree with new teams having problems to reach higher division. I already stressed the problem of the existence of a huge gap between beginners and old users and I support the idea of improving the starting condition for beginners. Overall these changes will need to be very considered very thoughtfully. I think that that the same assumptions as have been made here, should be done solely about game balance and game style you want to support. Because there is a constant threat that the changes could endanger some of the game styles. I disagree that the system promotes daily trading. I am definitely one of the users who had the most trades in sokker history. I will repeat that arcade matches bug must be fixed and then the possibility of buying and selling players will be reduced significantly. Trading is about risking the resources (money, time, training places, line-up places) to make a profit. It comes with a deep knowledge of market, the abity to predict future trends and a longterm planning. I talk here about the trades which take one season or longer. The shorter trades are possible as well, but they are quite rare. For very young players (16-18yrs) there is a possibility to make a huge money if you have luck on big talent and he pops up fast. But for every such player, there are several players which are robberies for buyers. I keep the database of all best players at this age category several seasons back and I have the prices of first purchase and other resells, so I know what I am talking about. Selling any other players than these youngsters on daily bases doesn´t make enough money to even talk about it. Problem might be only number of trades, but here again i point out to the arcade matches bug
Easy to learn, hard to master - I love to have the freedom of choice how to play the game. For me, it is an absolute priority, so it is great to hear this.
Goals and achievements - I support any changes that motivate users to play the game.
Storytelling - We had many initiatives like that in the Czech community. News about top divisions, national teams, even some yellow journalism. It had faded out with the decrease of active community members. Here I point it to what i said in the Community part.
Bot teams elimination - I guess you mean from the divisions which are higher than the one where are new users added? Well let me express you my experience. I have promoted several times from the lowest (4th Czech division to the top division). For me, the inactive users were pretty much as bad opponents as bot teams. Users who logged in just once in a week or two. They didn't make any changes in match settings. It was easy to prepare against them because I knew what they are going to play. They were not active members of the community. I could not discuss the games with them. All I wanted was to get out of such dead leagues. Just bot team elimination from competitions does not eliminate this problem.
New graphic design and UX - I like the option of keeping the old design and I agree that changes in this area are the must to keep up with the competition
(edited)
I am worried about the change in the training system after reading this.
New players can reach the top.
Most of the players in lower division simply don't listen to advice.
I have one of the strongest teams in Bosnia, but half of Bosnian managers still think they know the game better than me.
I would also like to add one more thing.
Engine has many issues. It needs work.
(edited)
New players can reach the top.
Most of the players in lower division simply don't listen to advice.
I have one of the strongest teams in Bosnia, but half of Bosnian managers still think they know the game better than me.
I would also like to add one more thing.
Engine has many issues. It needs work.
(edited)
Game balance – With the game's long history it’s easy to notice what areas are not balanced enough. Currently we have a huge number of top players, even in low divisions (like in Poland). The transfer system promotes daily trading and benefits managers, who are slowly gathering their founds to invest after a few seasons in their “dream team”. New players have huge problems to reach higher divisions.
All these issues are very complex and connected, so we need to act carefully and with some different, but consistent solutions. We need to upgrade the game mechanics to create more balance: to give some motivation to reach as high as your team can get, and also to help beginners improving their teams much easier than experienced players. It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant. To achieve all that we need to change the game economy, training speed, and a lot of small parameters, that need to be analysed and tested.
this is certainly the most important part and it will be carefully evaluated. Especially with regards to trading on which I'm very much in agreement, as is now very unbalanced the game in favor of traders.
This part is very, very important. Otherwise it makes the game uninteresting and benefits from a unique style of play (the traders).
Game spirit changes and the rest
agree on everything, just a little worried about timing (i hope not too fast, I like our timing and slow play)
(edited)
All these issues are very complex and connected, so we need to act carefully and with some different, but consistent solutions. We need to upgrade the game mechanics to create more balance: to give some motivation to reach as high as your team can get, and also to help beginners improving their teams much easier than experienced players. It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant. To achieve all that we need to change the game economy, training speed, and a lot of small parameters, that need to be analysed and tested.
this is certainly the most important part and it will be carefully evaluated. Especially with regards to trading on which I'm very much in agreement, as is now very unbalanced the game in favor of traders.
This part is very, very important. Otherwise it makes the game uninteresting and benefits from a unique style of play (the traders).
Game spirit changes and the rest
agree on everything, just a little worried about timing (i hope not too fast, I like our timing and slow play)
(edited)
Game balance - this will be "make or break" for old users.
I also am +1 on what slavista said about trading
I also am +1 on what slavista said about trading
I don't believe in changing the trade market. Every player must be free to play the game as he likes. If a trader, who puts a lot of effort in the games makes more proffit then he deserves it.
I think having total freedom as a manager is the most important thing about Sokker.
I think having total freedom as a manager is the most important thing about Sokker.
Also making it more easy to rise to the top isn't a good plan i think. I believe in the survival of the fittest in all ways in Sokker. If u can't make it to the top then it means your business isn't working and that you are making the wrong decisions in choosing players, training players , economy and tactics. Only the best players will fight on the top. There is no room for making it easier. This makes it a great challenge for everybody.
I was playing sokker 6-7 years ago and resuming playing was a beautiful thing, but even more beautiful is seeing this attention and new passion that sokker is transmitting to us.
Happy to be plus and to contribute actively to this dream that continues. Long live sokker
Happy to be plus and to contribute actively to this dream that continues. Long live sokker
cassiopeia to fizz_alin
I don't believe in changing the trade market. Every player must be free to play the game as he likes. If a trader, who puts a lot of effort in the games makes more proffit then he deserves it.
I think having total freedom as a manager is the most important thing about Sokker.
+1 absolutely agree
cassiopeia to cassiopeia
Also making it more easy to rise to the top isn't a good plan i think. I believe in the survival of the fittest in all ways in Sokker. If u can't make it to the top then it means your business isn't working and that you are making the wrong decisions in choosing players, training players , economy and tactics. Only the best players will fight on the top. There is no room for making it easier. This makes it a great challenge for everybody.
+1 as well. Thank you for mentioning this. I think that quality differences between divisions should not become necessarily less significant. I think that actual system is pretty balanced. The only problem is between the division where new teams are put and the one division higher. For more information look at this topic
Game balance
It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant.
One more thought on Training:
I saw a discussion on polish forum that Divine skilled players should not be so common. This corresponds with what you are saying here (Currently we have a huge number of top players, even in low divisions (like in Poland).I agree with that. But I don´t want the training to become anymore slower. So perhaps shortening the season a bit (We will propose a new competition idea, with some small game acceleration, to make the season shorter) could solve the problem alone. Only question is how much is a bit - if reducing the number of weeks from 16 to 14 would be enough or if this also means that number of teams in a league and whole division system would have to change (Is that the new competition idea?)
(edited)
I don't believe in changing the trade market. Every player must be free to play the game as he likes. If a trader, who puts a lot of effort in the games makes more proffit then he deserves it.
I think having total freedom as a manager is the most important thing about Sokker.
+1 absolutely agree
cassiopeia to cassiopeia
Also making it more easy to rise to the top isn't a good plan i think. I believe in the survival of the fittest in all ways in Sokker. If u can't make it to the top then it means your business isn't working and that you are making the wrong decisions in choosing players, training players , economy and tactics. Only the best players will fight on the top. There is no room for making it easier. This makes it a great challenge for everybody.
+1 as well. Thank you for mentioning this. I think that quality differences between divisions should not become necessarily less significant. I think that actual system is pretty balanced. The only problem is between the division where new teams are put and the one division higher. For more information look at this topic
Game balance
It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant.
One more thought on Training:
I saw a discussion on polish forum that Divine skilled players should not be so common. This corresponds with what you are saying here (Currently we have a huge number of top players, even in low divisions (like in Poland).I agree with that. But I don´t want the training to become anymore slower. So perhaps shortening the season a bit (We will propose a new competition idea, with some small game acceleration, to make the season shorter) could solve the problem alone. Only question is how much is a bit - if reducing the number of weeks from 16 to 14 would be enough or if this also means that number of teams in a league and whole division system would have to change (Is that the new competition idea?)
(edited)
It's a long post with no concrete what was done last week and not much detail what was accepted from all the threads we posted all week we need details.
Also worried about training it's impossible all the teams to be on top so people finding other beauty and reasons to stay like building best players for NT removing that option they will quit
Also worried about training it's impossible all the teams to be on top so people finding other beauty and reasons to stay like building best players for NT removing that option they will quit
Calm down. It's just 1 week since they posted the development thing. You can't just decide an idea and start working on it immediately. No need to start complaining within 1 week.
(edited)
(edited)
Play to win – Good. More competitions, like IRL I hope :) Letting the training even if the players don't play (maybe at 50% or something) sounds good too, if the number of players allowed in the team is limited
Competition optimization – Removing the "no games week" could be a good idea, but I guess you are thinking on removing the "round trip"... Not sure if I'm for it
Game balance – This sounds good. Currently, the only way to become greater is by daytrading or by training. Winning matches has barely no influence in the economy. If top divisions sponsors rewarded our teams with much more money, it would be worth to achieve these divisions regardless of the cost in players adquisition, making it more "live for today" rather than "save and spend"
Easy to learn, hard to master – The "easy to learn" part can be improved, certainly. There are areas that could be more intuitive, like the aforementioned stadium, the youth school or the tactics editor. I see the second part quite intriguing :)
Goals and achievements – This seems a great way to motivate new users until they can catch up with olders users
Storytelling – This sounds like a Social Network . Good for the days we are
Bot teams elimination - Good. We don't need more than 7 bots at most to complete the last group of every country. The rest could be eliminated and the human teams rearranged at the end of the season
New graphic design and UX - This was almost mandatory :P
(edited)
Competition optimization – Removing the "no games week" could be a good idea, but I guess you are thinking on removing the "round trip"... Not sure if I'm for it
Game balance – This sounds good. Currently, the only way to become greater is by daytrading or by training. Winning matches has barely no influence in the economy. If top divisions sponsors rewarded our teams with much more money, it would be worth to achieve these divisions regardless of the cost in players adquisition, making it more "live for today" rather than "save and spend"
Easy to learn, hard to master – The "easy to learn" part can be improved, certainly. There are areas that could be more intuitive, like the aforementioned stadium, the youth school or the tactics editor. I see the second part quite intriguing :)
Goals and achievements – This seems a great way to motivate new users until they can catch up with olders users
Storytelling – This sounds like a Social Network . Good for the days we are
Bot teams elimination - Good. We don't need more than 7 bots at most to complete the last group of every country. The rest could be eliminated and the human teams rearranged at the end of the season
New graphic design and UX - This was almost mandatory :P
(edited)
We didn't say at any point, that everyone will be at top. Take a look for new users, there is huge gap between starting position and most experienced players. We need to give them a chance to grow up and have fun from the game.
About “long post with no concrete” – well, it’s just second Dev. Diary, and to be honest, it’s crucial to give you first some overall perspective, before we will post some solutions. Why? Couse in most cases changes in one area affect another one or more, we need to have clear guidance to evaluate ideas, and about that is todays news.
About “long post with no concrete” – well, it’s just second Dev. Diary, and to be honest, it’s crucial to give you first some overall perspective, before we will post some solutions. Why? Couse in most cases changes in one area affect another one or more, we need to have clear guidance to evaluate ideas, and about that is todays news.
and how this will help them ?
It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant.
it will just remove possibility for them to train NT players
It will be much more difficult to train the best Sokker players and differences between league levels should become less significant.
it will just remove possibility for them to train NT players