Subpage under development, new version coming soon!
Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what
NT are totally ignored in this proposal 12 weeks will not fit in current structure
Old players existing one will be super valuable cause new ones will not be reached with shorter season
I would pick any of this for leguage structure but if I'm forced as its in this poll will pick option 3 at least will know Wich day what I play
Idea for new competition is great but that competition can fit in 14 or 15 week season and have only 2 games per week alwsys
With so many games per week injuries will be super important as cards and we know they are high level at the moment so either need reduction
I really prefer 2 games only per week
Old players existing one will be super valuable cause new ones will not be reached with shorter season
I would pick any of this for leguage structure but if I'm forced as its in this poll will pick option 3 at least will know Wich day what I play
Idea for new competition is great but that competition can fit in 14 or 15 week season and have only 2 games per week alwsys
With so many games per week injuries will be super important as cards and we know they are high level at the moment so either need reduction
I really prefer 2 games only per week
Can't stand but I have to say it 25 percentage is not slight speed up
Whichever option will be chosen I expect showing my next game on team page because without that users will be confused. They have their habits and setting match formations so often isnt one of them and if they would see future match on their team page that would imo help greatly to not forget about match.
You right, but thats about UX - we started new UX development, and we have an idea of dedicated starting page, with all crucial shortcuts for decision you should made (as next match ofc.)
(edited)
(edited)
League system:
My first react is : Wow ^^ Cool, finally much more challenges... BUT 3 to 4 officials wow it can be hard to manage!
* We - the old "loyal" users - all know that : Setting our squads for usually 1 official + 1 "training" every week is already not easy to manage. We have to set "by-hand" carefully our squads each weeks (switching from A TO B, and choose positions for training).
WITHOUT any additional and clear proposal about how sokker can help for team selection and changes about training system (actually it's very constraining for setting our squad each week) i already can see the huge controverse about your (good) league proposals.
Anyway, your new system is great "on the paper" for challenging.
* OPTION 2 must be dismissed, not because of is not a good idea, but I really hope we can keep a "regular calendar" and no extra match during some days in season..
* Also nothing about NT calendar consequences and management.
If you lead a NT team and a community (im really aware about this ^^) 4 to 5 Officials a week that's impossible.
My proposal is to introduce multi user NT coaches : one main (by actual vote system) and 2-3 assistants (choose by main coach) that can also set squad and tactics like a coach can do. Otherwise, good bye good NT management.
* Finaly. I want to say that challenging is not (mainly) about more games / week. There are clearly a lack of challenges in other things (Young School, stadium, ...) that can be solve.
My first react is : Wow ^^ Cool, finally much more challenges... BUT 3 to 4 officials wow it can be hard to manage!
* We - the old "loyal" users - all know that : Setting our squads for usually 1 official + 1 "training" every week is already not easy to manage. We have to set "by-hand" carefully our squads each weeks (switching from A TO B, and choose positions for training).
WITHOUT any additional and clear proposal about how sokker can help for team selection and changes about training system (actually it's very constraining for setting our squad each week) i already can see the huge controverse about your (good) league proposals.
Anyway, your new system is great "on the paper" for challenging.
* OPTION 2 must be dismissed, not because of is not a good idea, but I really hope we can keep a "regular calendar" and no extra match during some days in season..
* Also nothing about NT calendar consequences and management.
If you lead a NT team and a community (im really aware about this ^^) 4 to 5 Officials a week that's impossible.
My proposal is to introduce multi user NT coaches : one main (by actual vote system) and 2-3 assistants (choose by main coach) that can also set squad and tactics like a coach can do. Otherwise, good bye good NT management.
* Finaly. I want to say that challenging is not (mainly) about more games / week. There are clearly a lack of challenges in other things (Young School, stadium, ...) that can be solve.
Before you implement the 12 week structure, you should explain how the training will work, will it be sped up too?
How will the different types of matches affect the training?
Also would be great to see the results of the polls. Not to mention that you already have polls here in sokker. Why to take it external, where anyone can use proxy and vote XXX times?
How will the different types of matches affect the training?
Also would be great to see the results of the polls. Not to mention that you already have polls here in sokker. Why to take it external, where anyone can use proxy and vote XXX times?
You're right - it's important to address changes also with UX experience and some usefull tools to help managers set squad for dedicated competitions for example, or much easier pick up players for the line. That need to be solved ofc.
About training - we will make some simulations with test server, i supose it will be also a bit faster (but rather not 25%). Without test it's hard to predict for now. We will give you our full ideas about trening in upcoming weeks, we decided, that it' wont be a good idea to open to many discussion at once, it would be confusing.
Same about other areas closely linked to the games - like injuries or club finances - it will be also tested and adjusted.
About training - we will make some simulations with test server, i supose it will be also a bit faster (but rather not 25%). Without test it's hard to predict for now. We will give you our full ideas about trening in upcoming weeks, we decided, that it' wont be a good idea to open to many discussion at once, it would be confusing.
Same about other areas closely linked to the games - like injuries or club finances - it will be also tested and adjusted.
There is a poll showing that a majority of players does not prefer to play a 12 week season. So hmmm for coming up with this plan anyway.
14 weeks: Ok fine by me. I like neither option, unless there are more assistants who are able to make a lineup in case I forget. But even if I wouldn't really want 3 games a week. If users get more freedom how to choose what to play, so add more options instead of forcing them into something they don't want to: also fine by me.
Also I might add what allways felt wrong is taking pokal matches not seriously because training was and is more important. Wasn't realistic that way and would certainly be more fun if users could take all matches more seriously. So that would also require to change training. What I am worried about is to change training, cause the way it was it provided an interesting challenge and that would have to be made up for.
Edit: Stamina training can certainly be done with a finess coach. But seeing al your ideas I am certain that you allready thouht about a significant change in training scheme.
(edited)
14 weeks: Ok fine by me. I like neither option, unless there are more assistants who are able to make a lineup in case I forget. But even if I wouldn't really want 3 games a week. If users get more freedom how to choose what to play, so add more options instead of forcing them into something they don't want to: also fine by me.
Also I might add what allways felt wrong is taking pokal matches not seriously because training was and is more important. Wasn't realistic that way and would certainly be more fun if users could take all matches more seriously. So that would also require to change training. What I am worried about is to change training, cause the way it was it provided an interesting challenge and that would have to be made up for.
Edit: Stamina training can certainly be done with a finess coach. But seeing al your ideas I am certain that you allready thouht about a significant change in training scheme.
(edited)
Answer for training question you can find above:)
About polls - sure, we will share them with you, probably in a week. We decided to use external once to have one place to reach all of users - forum is rather place for just a part of players, some of users will vote directly from main news page, we also will publish oud Dev Diary on facebook profile, hoping for votes of some past users too.
About polls - sure, we will share them with you, probably in a week. We decided to use external once to have one place to reach all of users - forum is rather place for just a part of players, some of users will vote directly from main news page, we also will publish oud Dev Diary on facebook profile, hoping for votes of some past users too.
Yes, we sow that poll, but for us it's wrong question at all. It's not about how many weeks will take a season - it's rather about how many games should we play in one week, what kind of competitions (if any?) should we add to the game, mentioned poll is completly out of context.
We are open for different options of season lenght, but for now we decided to give you 3 different options with the same time frame, to decide about overall approach for games (mainly about number of games per week).
About training - it will be rather an small evolution, main idea is to switch trening from just one formation for some limited "slots" - to give you a chance to build your teams not in the proportion between trained formation and others, but rather between young players and more experienced ones. So, it will be even possible to leave your training as it is, deciding to use all "slots" for one formation. But for sure it will help to manage with more games per week & give a chance to focus on winning.
We are open for different options of season lenght, but for now we decided to give you 3 different options with the same time frame, to decide about overall approach for games (mainly about number of games per week).
About training - it will be rather an small evolution, main idea is to switch trening from just one formation for some limited "slots" - to give you a chance to build your teams not in the proportion between trained formation and others, but rather between young players and more experienced ones. So, it will be even possible to leave your training as it is, deciding to use all "slots" for one formation. But for sure it will help to manage with more games per week & give a chance to focus on winning.
So you do not care about that users can vote multiple times? :-P
Not that it would matter just dont let option 2 win, match structure is important.
I accept that you dont want to start the discussion about the training yet. But let me add my 2 cents anyway :-P.
The top teams will play more competitive games now, you lowered the importance of friendlies, so that will results in top teams to have more training "units". Same goes for more money, gets bit more unbalanced than before.
I like what Gallifax wrote:
Also I might add what allways felt wrong is taking pokal matches not seriously because training was and is more important.
Many of us are doing the same, treating cup matches as training, so the competitiveness of the cup is low. So you might consider a solution to fix this issue.
Not that it would matter just dont let option 2 win, match structure is important.
I accept that you dont want to start the discussion about the training yet. But let me add my 2 cents anyway :-P.
The top teams will play more competitive games now, you lowered the importance of friendlies, so that will results in top teams to have more training "units". Same goes for more money, gets bit more unbalanced than before.
I like what Gallifax wrote:
Also I might add what allways felt wrong is taking pokal matches not seriously because training was and is more important.
Many of us are doing the same, treating cup matches as training, so the competitiveness of the cup is low. So you might consider a solution to fix this issue.
"Yes, it should still be Sokker, but finally completely updated. The website looks like crap, the graphics look like crap, the layout of options is in some cases crap (tactic editor under training, tiny right upper corner while this is one of the best things of Sokker, youth school in office, and more)"
I am not entirely sure you are right on all accounts.
I mean as long as the concept is great I do not care that much about graphics, but agreed sokker has issues which need to be solved.
To give an example: I still love gaming old Amiga Games like Chaos Engine or Cannon Fodder to name two. We certainly agree they are outdated, but love the games.
I am not entirely sure you are right on all accounts.
I mean as long as the concept is great I do not care that much about graphics, but agreed sokker has issues which need to be solved.
To give an example: I still love gaming old Amiga Games like Chaos Engine or Cannon Fodder to name two. We certainly agree they are outdated, but love the games.
It's blocked to vote more than 2 times, of course it could be cheated, but we asume that we are rather adults here and will treat it seriously, not like some kind of war that someone need to win whatever the cost is;)
Your point about official games is important, its noticed, but we have idea how to address it:) we will give more info with all training desciption.
At the competition model we decided for group stage in International Cup - it's gives everyone 6 official games for sure. But as i've mentioned, it's rather to be balanced in training assumptions.
Your point about official games is important, its noticed, but we have idea how to address it:) we will give more info with all training desciption.
At the competition model we decided for group stage in International Cup - it's gives everyone 6 official games for sure. But as i've mentioned, it's rather to be balanced in training assumptions.
Yeah but the poll implies the question of about many games a week. Don't you think so? People answering to that poll will certainly have taken into account that the matches played now need to be put within the 14 weeks timeframe. It's easiest to do away with the 2 boring weeks at the end of season.
3 matches a week seem a bit much to me so option 2 might still be the best. Could also be that I have been too rush about the concept and need give it some more thought...
After all not all users will stay for a long time in al three competitions. In any case I wanted to give some feedback which users might not like and that would certainly be useful too.
What I certainly like is the idea of enhancing leagues to 12 teams,it seems more interesting and having 6 relegation spots and two teams for promotion is more realistic and more interesting.
(edited)
3 matches a week seem a bit much to me so option 2 might still be the best. Could also be that I have been too rush about the concept and need give it some more thought...
After all not all users will stay for a long time in al three competitions. In any case I wanted to give some feedback which users might not like and that would certainly be useful too.
What I certainly like is the idea of enhancing leagues to 12 teams,it seems more interesting and having 6 relegation spots and two teams for promotion is more realistic and more interesting.
(edited)
I think a few details are still missing.
Is the junior league getting cancelled? If not that is another game in the week. Where are NT matches? That is another game in the week.
With option 3 that could mean 6 games a week for NT coaches.
4 games per week is already too much, but I think you can get away with 3 matches per week. The junior league is pretty much rubbish, that noone cares about, and only does it to get a more accurate skill level for their youths. This could easily be axed, and another game put in it's place.
I think it is very important to only have the one type of game on any one day, to stop confusion. As a new user, I would be very confused if they kept jumping around (and I will get very confused as an old user too).
If you want to drop to 12 weeks, then it would be better to have 7 teams in each division, and then the qualifying match is the only time a match is played on a different day.
Alternatively, you get rid of the home and away format, use an "average stadium" of the two teams playing, everyone in the league plays eachother just once, and you increase the league to 12-13 teams. This would then allow the change of top two from lower divisions either promoting or being in a playoff match.
I think the idea to change is good, and shortening the season a bit is not a bad idea, but there still needs to be consistency AND downtime.
If I wanted to play 4 or 5 matches a week, I would join any one of the other football games out there, which tend to have a lot of users signed up, but many don't play long term as it attracts people who like short term reward, and then move to other games. This game is unique in that it attracts a lot of loyal users who like a slow build.
The International and National cup ideas are really good, and I like them a lot, but the league side of things needs more work
Is the junior league getting cancelled? If not that is another game in the week. Where are NT matches? That is another game in the week.
With option 3 that could mean 6 games a week for NT coaches.
4 games per week is already too much, but I think you can get away with 3 matches per week. The junior league is pretty much rubbish, that noone cares about, and only does it to get a more accurate skill level for their youths. This could easily be axed, and another game put in it's place.
I think it is very important to only have the one type of game on any one day, to stop confusion. As a new user, I would be very confused if they kept jumping around (and I will get very confused as an old user too).
If you want to drop to 12 weeks, then it would be better to have 7 teams in each division, and then the qualifying match is the only time a match is played on a different day.
Alternatively, you get rid of the home and away format, use an "average stadium" of the two teams playing, everyone in the league plays eachother just once, and you increase the league to 12-13 teams. This would then allow the change of top two from lower divisions either promoting or being in a playoff match.
I think the idea to change is good, and shortening the season a bit is not a bad idea, but there still needs to be consistency AND downtime.
If I wanted to play 4 or 5 matches a week, I would join any one of the other football games out there, which tend to have a lot of users signed up, but many don't play long term as it attracts people who like short term reward, and then move to other games. This game is unique in that it attracts a lot of loyal users who like a slow build.
The International and National cup ideas are really good, and I like them a lot, but the league side of things needs more work
About training - it will be rather an small evolution, main idea is to switch trening from just one formation for some limited "slots" - to give you a chance to build your teams not in the proportion between trained formation and others, but rather between young players and more experienced ones. So, it will be even possible to leave your training as it is, deciding to use all "slots" for one formation. But for sure it will help to manage with more games per week & give a chance to focus on winning.
I think I like that and if I understood it correctly , corrrect me if I'm wrong, it might help with the lack of competitivness of pokal and friendly matches.
I think I like that and if I understood it correctly , corrrect me if I'm wrong, it might help with the lack of competitivness of pokal and friendly matches.