Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

I appreciate that you want to make changes and to improve the game.
But why such a potential major change straight off the bat?
Ironing out and improving the stuff that people don't like would have a positive effect on people to begin with, so why not concentrate on doing that first?
With what is being proposed you might as well just start a new game from scratch so everybody was on an even playing field because players trained to 16 week seasons would be much better than the ones being trained in 12 week seasons, which would cause an imbalance in the game immediately.
So you'd be taking all this effort to make the game better and yet you would have created an immediate advantage to current players with the top stars.
I have to say that I'm not a fan of any proposal changing the length of the season especially as I've never heard anybody moan about this. Maybe they have but I never saw it.

clearly my message is to the developers and not DON SAL

(edited)

I like very much option 3, really. I think there is an excessive fear about the 4 matches for week. For two reasons.

1) it depends on the method of training. I waste a lot of time checking that all my players plays to train. But if the sistem is diferent, I can plane the same team in various matches, saving time

2) If national cup(s) has only 512 teams, after 2 or 3 matches I will leave this competition, probably. So, 3 matches for week. After 6 rounds, 70% of teams too are leaving the international cup. 2 matches for week in the second half of the season


Other side, 12 teams per group means more interesting forums and more probability to arrive to play off (2/12 is more than 1/8). I think is fantastic.

apologize if I lost part of the discussion,
in any case thank you for your feedback

That is exactly what I wanted to point out, reading all the proposals.

Majority of countries finishes National Cup within 7 weeks, so most of the users will play up to 3 weeks. What shall they all do with the rest of the season?

Also, International Cup guarantees 6 matches for majority of teams. What will they do for the rest 6 or 8 or how many weeks left?


How will all of this affect training and players' develpment, being the most important thing in this game!

If you lower the affect of friendly games to almost nothing, how can we train our young players after week 6? That is the main issue here, not the games played weekly.

Introducing International Cup and third game is good solution to me, only if we can continue developing young players for our team and our NTs as well.


There were few good ideas. If you want to speed up the game 14 weeks seems better than 12, adding another competition is good idea.

Personally, I am leaning towards 12 teams per league, one match round robin, dividing ticket share, playing 11 weeks + promotion/relegation match for as many teams as possible (I think slavista made good model) to make it more interesting for majority of managers.

As for both National and International Cup, maybe you could make them on Wednesdays one after another, 7 weeks National, then 7 weeks International. Or you can introduce International on Friday for example but start with it week 4 or 5 when majority is out of National just to keep the whole season more interesting.

Right now only enjoyment after you leave the Cup is training young players in boring friendly game where they can get injured and lose up to 4 weeks of training, which is 25% of the season.

ok, if some option with 3 games in week will win, that looks pretty clear, that we should make some contrproposals for it as we speak.

Unless option 3 will be most preffered, becouse it work that way (dedicated days for each competition).

it will be the best...

Dedicated days for each competition is a must, imho.

this changes have too many, many ?????????????

how write tcd_uk, can make new game :D

How will all of this affect training and players' develpment, being the most important thing in this game!
The most important thing in this game as in any other online game is competitive or cooperative playing and this idea is meant to make this game more focused on competitive playing rather than buying, training and selling players all the time.

If you lower the affect of friendly games to almost nothing, how can we train our young players after week 6? That is the main issue here, not the games played weekly.
Incoming training changes might have been briefly described by devs, but, anyway, they will be discussed later and I am sure that devs have in mind that game should give more or less equal chances. I think You will have training slots which You will fill with players which will be training "individually" no matter if You played cup match or not or maybe cup matches will count but You have second league match or international cup to fill these gaps and train more or less the same as teams which plays in national and international cup finals.

b) 12 teams per league improve gameplay

Some might disagree but I believe this would make things a lot more exiciting. In the 8-team format you often get one very strong team so the end of the season gets boring for average teams who have nothing to play for. The same applies to the bottom of the table if one super weak team is destined to take the last place.
In a 12-team format you could have the following rules:
1st place gets automatical promotion
2nd place plays a playoff match
5th-8th play playoff matches
9th-12th get automatical relegation


I really like this one.



c) 2 league games, 1 cup game per week

So this would be an altered version of option 3: 2 league games per week and on the 3rd day we play the national cup for the first 6 weeks and then the international cup for the final 6 weeks.

The obvious drawback is that each cup would be limited to 64 teams. I don't think that's a huge problem for the national cup: the first two divisions would provide 60 teams and then you'd get an additional 4 teams from the 3rd division. That should more or less include all the teams that have a shot at winning this. Everyone below this would get their own cup, giving them better chances to go far. Maybe the winner of the lower cup would get an automatic spot in the higher cup competition the following year.

The international cup would be more problematic: 64 spots is not a lot for the top division. I don't have a perfect solution for this but it's safe to say that even in the current format there are way less teams in each year's Champions Cup that have a realistic shot at winning the competition. So we just need a fair rule that makes sure all the best teams get to be in the top cup. Everyone else would be in lower level cups as well.

Could also be interesting with more competitive matches for majority of teams.

Of course, you can build your team through training or by buying veteran players. In all the sports best results come from combination of the two.

We are not considering future economic of the game, which is also important. Will they increase wages and other expenses? Then they should allow more money from sponsors and visitors.

How will all of that affect trading nobody can tell right now.

You've probably seen transfer market going crazy.

All good news this :)
(edited)

The most important thing in this game as in any other online game is competitive or cooperative playing and this idea is meant to make this game more focused on competitive playing rather than buying, training and selling players all the time.

that is what makes sokker enjoyable. that't a major part of the fun.
Remember that the large majority of users will never win anything.

I play (and played) several other managment games without the link between training and matches. There's no fun at all (IMHO). It becomes only an economic problem, no programmation, no long term strategy, no tactic problems to fit young player in a competitive contest..

I strongly disagree the idea that training should be indipendent from matches and roles.
(edited)

+ we are so used to it.

Being not so young anymore, we don't like to change our habits.

yes, it should be dependent on matches, player have to play at least one match in week to get max training for example

but it should be independent from roles if by roles You mean match orders GK/MID/DEF/ATT

May I ask what will be with the Champions Cup? Will it remaining on thursdays?

I think it would be good/nice for seeing the competition of the top-top teams henceforward and it makes a chance to a champion team for a small country for have the opportunity playing against the best teams of sokker. And Champions Cup is a little bit similar as NT-matches: you want to see winning the team from your nation. (I know, the idea of International Cup is quite the same, but I would prefer International League instead of that with keep on Champions Cup. The system which was describe by slavista would make a great chance to do that all and within 14-16 week.)

this way it's all so simplified that is no more challenging.

I think you are missing the point. This limitation are the key to get a challenging game. But without challenge you lose the fun.