Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

+1

14 weeks would be perfect and dont change so much about age of player, only maybe changing junior age.

i am reading comments all day long and this conclusion looks to me as great compromise:

So probably, if option 1 or 2 wins (or votes for both of them, becouse they are quite similar), we will adjust them for longer season, to make all league matches in row, just in one prefered day (but still trying to shortern the season, maybe at least for 14 weeks).

+1

I totally agree that this is the best compromise.

I would also add that any shortening of the season shall have a negative affect on the number of new juniors entering to the sokker pool so players to train an buy shall be more and more expensive as time goes by. Shall the junior system be changed in any matter?

The issue with the friendly matches having a reduced affect on training is in my opinion a very bad idea. After you are eliminated from the International\National cup the effectiveness of you training drops drastically. The new and weaker players will suffer even more from this as the effective training and selling of trained players is the only way how to make progress in the game. Something must be done that all have a equal possibility to train their players.

So probably, if option 1 or 2 wins (or votes for both of them, becouse they are quite similar), we will adjust them for longer season, to make all league matches in row, just in one prefered day (but still trying to shortern the season, maybe at least for 14 weeks).

+1 It would be a good solution for everyone

I started with 4 new teams since 2005 and everytime I managed to get from the bottom to the top division.

The problem is not the length of the season but in the huge difference between level of new users and old users. Yes, shortening the season would probably shorten the time needed to reach the top division, but in a very inefficient way with many side effects

Much better would be to improve the starting conditions of new users. The biggest problem was always to accumulate enough money to afford competitive players for the top division. You start with only 250k €, 20 useless players, average mark 20, stadium 3100 places, useless coaches and you are supposed to catch up with people who have 60-70 average mark, 40000 seats stadium, 5* magical coaches, value of their team 50M € and 20M € on their account.

You cannot really think in terms of 2 years between me (as a beginner) and the top division. Unless you accumulate really huge money and have great training players you cannot just promote every season. It takes a time to build up a team.

And I started with all the previous knowledge and I knew what to do exactly. Now imagine the beginner who is confused by all the staff that is new for him and who has to learn everything from the scratch while making many mistakes, which is natural for the process of learning.
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Sure it is, there are many problems when you re new user. but it's another discussion, many elements affect on that. Lenght of season is one of them (and i agree, that it's just one from lot).

Yes but without keeping the current users happy, you won't have people recruiting to make the game great again.

This game won't grow by paid advertisements, it grows by people bringing their friends in, by playing other games and talking about it there. If you alienate the current players, there will be no future players.

Developments need to be appropriate for now, not for what could be, because if now is not looked at, there will be no future. You can't run before you can walk.

The main problem I think is that currently you need to save money to be competitive. If you just play at 100% every time, someone else will save money and will eventually get a better team than yours

If prices were according to the results of your team, winning teams would get enough money to keep on the promotion if they are good enough. To keep the balance, player salaries should also be increased

At the moment, salaries are not a problem unless you try to buy a top player from a lower division, which is any useful. The idea must be that playing in a high division requires more money, but also generates more money, balancing income and outcome

You can do good results with oldies but is not fun :(

But that way you burn the money

The only way to earn money is by trading or by training: winning is not on that equation, while it should be the most important way

Yep, game economy need to be adjusted too, it's about improving game balance. For sure it need to be done, but need to be done very carefully - we will probably play a lot of test seasons on tester server to use some corrections and make sure that they work good.

Week tue thur Sun
1. National Cup1 League1 League2
2. National Cup2 League3 League4
3. National Cup3 Internat. Cup1 League5
4. National Cup4 Internat. Cup2 League6
5. National Cup5 Internat. Cup3 League7
6. National Cup6 Internat. Cup4 League8
7. National Cup7 Internat. Cup5 League9
8. National Cup8 Internat. Cup6 League10
9. National Cup9 Internat. Cup7 League11
10. League12 Internat. Cup8 League13
11. League14 Internat. Cup9 League15
12. League16 Internat. Cup10 League17
13. League18 Internat. Cup11 Play off



Week tue thur Sun
1. National Cup1 League1 League2
2. National Cup2 League3 League4
3. National Cup3 Internat. Cup1 League5
4. National Cup4 Internat. Cup2 League6
5. National Cup5 Internat. Cup3 League7
6. National Cup6 Internat. Cup4 League8
7. National Cup7 Internat. Cup5 League9
8. National Cup8 Internat. Cup6 League10
9. League11 Internat. Cup7 League12
10. League13 Internat. Cup8 League14
11. League15 Internat. Cup9 League16
12. League17 Internat. Cup10 League18
13. League19 Internat. Cup11 League20
14. League21 League22 Play off

Two options with 13 and 14 weeks.
With 13 weeks we would have the national cup with 512 teams and the international cup with 64 teams (11 dates), and the league with 10 teams. In this option, all teams would play at least 2 official games in weeks 1-8, 10-12.
With 14 weeks we would have the national cup with 256 teams (series 1-3 in the country) and the international cup with 64 teams (11 dates), and the league with 12 teams. In this option, all teams would play at least 2 official games every week.

Lets wait for next Dev Diary, it should be dedicated for a training - we think that our proposal for training will address it. Ok I hope so.

A some users mnentioned before 14 weks season and max 3 matches a week sounds appealing, but so do 12 teams and 2 promotion spots. I guess one can't have it all.

As achmid said: I think it is indeed important to look at the current userbase and not only at a possible future. Changing too much too fast even if the steps are choosen correctly might still bring about desaster. I understand all the points you made they make perfect sense to me, still it's a subtle path to walk.

One path to shorten the season and have more competition is imho kryminaors suggestgion o play several matches a day from different competitions. Some users migth take offense on that regarding realism, but might offer a way out. For me personally I would just do some lineup for competitions I do niot care for or don't have time and don't watch those matches , neither doing tactics for it. Problem solved for me, but not all managers can put it aside like that.
(edited)

Week///tue/////////////// thur///////////// Sun
1. National Cup1////League1////////League2
2. National Cup2////League3////////League4
3. National Cup3//Internat. Cup1//League5
4. National Cup4//Internat. Cup2//League6
5. National Cup5//Internat. Cup3//League7
6. National Cup6//Internat. Cup4//League8
7. National Cup7//Internat. Cup5//League9
8. National Cup8//Internat. Cup6//League10
9. National Cup9//Internat. Cup7//League11
10. League12//////Internat. Cup8//League13
11. League14//////Internat. Cup9//League15
12. League16/////Internat. Cup10//League17
13. League18/////Internat. Cup11//Play off



Week///tue/////////////// thur///////////// Sun
1. National Cup1////League1////////League2
2. National Cup2////League3////////League4
3. National Cup3//Internat. Cup1//League5
4. National Cup4//Internat. Cup2//League6
5. National Cup5//Internat. Cup3//League7
6. National Cup6//Internat. Cup4//League8
7. National Cup7//Internat. Cup5//League9
8. National Cup8//Internat. Cup6//League10
9. League11////////Internat. Cup7//League12
10. League13//////Internat. Cup8//League14
11. League15//////Internat. Cup9//League16
12. League17/////Internat. Cup10//League18
13. League19/////Internat. Cup11//League20
14. League21//////League22////////Play off

Sorry I didn't make a better picture.
(edited)

Where did the idea of 12 weeks come from. I really never have seen this mentioned before, absolutely never.

And apparently this is already decided looking at the 3 options. Really strange.

What is mentioned a couple of thousand times is division structure, way more important as 12, 13 or 14 weeks.


EDIT: and looking at the votes, more then 50% of the managers want 15 weeks/keep as it is, not even 25% wants 12 weeks. So where does the 12 weeks come from?

http://sokker.org/forum_topic/ID_forum/63355/ID_topic/3442054/pg/0#new

(edited)

I really hoped this time would be different. I hoped this time ideas of managers would be used that are actually suggested on the forums last couple of years (DECADE!), and not ideas that mostly come from developers and then forced upon us.

But it does happen again ......................

Thanks managers for all your time invested in ideas, but we just do what we want.

(edited)