Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

So you say, but I don't buy that. Out of all the issues I've ever heard people complain about, the length of the season has never been one of them
But it is fair to admit that it can be a solution to many issues You've heard people complain about. You/They just weren't aware of that or simply didn't want that.
It don't have to be a solution, but it can be.

I am not happy with shortening season, but I can handle 12 weeks. Although, still prefer more, even more than 16.
But, if length of the season is a problem for potential Polish newcomers (Raul wrote about going from 5-6th league to the top, so it can only be Poland and it applies only to Poland) because they would like to be able to go to the top faster, then shortening season isn't the only way, I suppose. You can always try to flatten league structure so instead of travelling through 5 leagues in 12-week seasons You could be travelling through 2 leagues in 16-week season (two league games + national/international cup weekly).

if current system stay then it woud be very difficult in future to find 3x18 striker for example.
You are aware that it is benefit. I mean, the less fully powerful strikers/defenders/goalkeepers/midfielders the better.
Anyway, it was said that injuries, training etc. will be adapted more or less accordingly.

I wonder how do you want to handle the training. I cannot think of any good solution how to deal with the problem of the players trained in the old 16weeks system and the fresh ones..

Even if you speed up training a little it will boost already existing players as well.
You cannot just reduce the skills of all players by % of how much shorter will be the season, because it would be unfair to their owners.
You cannot do nothing because it would create an unfair advantage for all existing players over the fresh ones.


With season 25% shorter, we will probably also speed up training, but for less.

@ Rual: You always tell us that the competition system and matches during the week are important now and the length of the season can be adjusted later but you still operate with 25% shorter season

I've read the post of DEVs before the poll, and I still voted to keep as it is. 15 weeks maybe, but that's it. I think almost all would have done the same. In fact, how this is done, I think if a poll was made afterwards even more managers would have voted keep as it is, just to make a point this is not how things should be done. Taking 4 weeks of a season, that's just .... don't even know what to say about that.

I think you really have underestimated how important the number of weeks are for managers. And after deciding how many weeks a season will be, there would have been time for the how and what. But you did it the wrong way and with an assumption knowing what managers would agree with.

About the training, there are different ways to deal with trainingspeed, but shorten a season by 25% is the worst option and definitely the least supported option. Maybe the most easy way out, but that would be a terrible argument and reason why to do it.

I really like the break between seasons, and apparently most of the voters.


Option 3 should not even be mentioned! That should have been an option most managers would have liked.

And you should have posted all options and not only these terrible 3. Better a few more and have an open discussion, instead of forcing these 3 up on managers while there are some hidden options still open, but not posted. That is just nasty.

As I wrote already, I was affraid this was going to happen. All kind of possitive 'we are going to chanse Sokker and need input from managers', but in the end, it is Sokker all over again. This way it is going to be a big disappointment.

And yes, as useually strong language of me, but don't know how to make it more clear.

You say, most of the voters...
And you are right, most of those that vote, vote against.
But those that vote are only a tiny bitsy piece of the users...
MOST users don't vote at all, meaning they're fine with anything...

ANd for what it's worth... There's nothing decided at all. There's only been given a choice between proposals, but they always concider the opinions of those who wants to give them. Be glad we can continue our favourite game after 2020...

I think you do have some valid points, but let's cool down a bit. After all we are discussing things and it's a lively discussion with listening devs, which we havent had until recently. So I am positive that we won' get something which is against a majority of users.

I wonder how Raul is getting his work done considering his online time in this thread here.

So many things affects that, it's true - for sure with extra games during the week we will also need to develop some features to make management more easy and less time consuming (dedicated lineups for different competitions, more substitutions, some other maybe).
Also better mobile access should be developed.

Sounds good .

we are glad that our favorite game will continue this do not means we should not have opinion and right to defend what we like in the game . If game changes too rapidly and in wrong direction it will not be our game any more :(

From last days comments we see, that it's very important for most of you to keep dedicated days for specific competitions, so we can agree on it.
(...)
(...) If we will decide, to move with one league game per week, and two different cups combined with rule to have dedicated game for each of them, it's simply than we need 14 weeks.


This was good to read, good to hear, that's very good!


I think it would have been better if the vote question were only: "How many (official) matches want you in a week?" And the answer options were 2, 3 or 4. So simply.
With giving a schedule (and to do that with only the 12 week option) it is much more confusing.
But I know, it's easy to say that subsequently. :-)


For me, your communication with us is very important, and you (also Mekene) do that, which is great, even if there are maybe sometimes controversial parts in your proposal. But also this important is to make only very reasoned steps/changes.

It's never "our" game...We only like playing it.

Indeed, most didn't vote. But you can look at it from different viewpoint.

Maybe they don't vote because they don't care, or don't vote because not active on forum, or don't like to vote, or some other reason.

And this voting can just as well be pretty accurate when it comes to how managers would vote if all did vote. We don't know.

And I shoud have used 'voters' instead of 'managers' a few times, that is right. These 2 are indeed not the same without the correct numbers (whatever 'correct' is, this isn't decided before voting).


(and older idea that was suggested a long time ago, implement polls send directly to managers inbox to get a larger percentage votes from managers, or hopefully a larger percentage. But this is a different subject :))

I said what I wanted to say, some dissapointed had to come out. So for now it will be cool again :)

And indeed, good to have at least a discussion, but that is far from enough to make up a decade of nothing. Something has to be done this time, and right. And my doubt is about that last part, now even more than before.

I never liked polls...

I don't understand why so much discussion.

It's clear that most people prefer 14 weeks with 3 matches per week.
But final decission is in the hands of Devs. They must decide. I think it should not take longer.

It's clear that most people prefer 14 weeks with 3 matches per week.

Well, not me for sure...

It's not clear at all what most people want, cause you have only a small portion of users giving their opinion...

It's clear that most people prefer 14 weeks with 3 matches per week.


And not for me.

I really hoped this time would be different. I hoped this time ideas of managers would be used that are actually suggested on the forums last couple of years (DECADE!), and not ideas that mostly come from developers and then forced upon us.

But it does happen again ......................

Thanks managers for all your time invested in ideas, but we just do what we want.

This is EXACTLY how I feel.
So much hope for this change, was so happy I came back to so, was great we had a developer thread which narrows down all the ideas and improvements that sokker needs, over the past decade, and then we just get given what the next polish DEV decides they want.

There have been a number of well thought out community ideas before, that people have spent many hours making, making sure it fits regardless of country size, looking to help big and small nations, looking to help new and old users, and then we get given a schedule to choose that can't even accommodate the proposed ideas.

Shortening the season will not turn the game around for sokker. New users don't come here and say, eww 16weeks,too much, they come here and look at community forums, is there talk, will they have someone to help them, will they develop a bond, is it easy to work out the basics but difficult to master. They also have xbox, switch, play station. This is why online manager games are dying.

The people (not in sokker who like football), want to play FIFA20. Shortening weeks will not make this FIFA20. The people here now want to play sokker. Shortening weeks and making a haphazard schedule will make this not sokker.

10k is your fan base, that is all that is guaranteed. It has been steady for quite a while. Users won't suddenly flock because some entity said sokker cut 4 weeks off their schedule, users will actually come less because unhappy, decade long users will leave, they won't suggest sokker they will tell their old sokker friends that new devs took over and changed the whole thing so don't bother.

The users have had 10-15yrs to work out what sokker needs, and what would actually help the game. Don't insult them by making such big changes that noone asked for, that noone thought was an issue and presenting schedules that look like a toddler got to put it together because they liked mixing up colours