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Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what
I will disagree with that fast game you get far more easy bored few times you forgot line up and you give up season then next season you do it again and you give up. long games when you put a lot efforts and long time you get addicted ..and is hard to leave :) watching game on sunday is like ritual. And also do not forget season not only get shorter but there will be more official games .
Spot in. In a short game, you go away for a couple of days, get busy with real life, season is over.
In sokker you get busy for a couple of weeks and your season is alive. You want to take time away from the game (for any reason), you may drop one league level, in short game you lose all the hard work you put in and might as well start again.
I have joined and quit many short manager games. I'd have a lot of fun, but for only a week, or maximum a month.
But sokker, I played for 10yrs the first time around, and now another few years.
The only other game I have done this with is another management game, that is flourishing after implementing some good changes. And guess what, they still have 14 week league fixtures like sokker, and between a 2 and 4 week off season, which is equal/longer than sokker.
So no, 14 weeks is not a lot, it is not a recipe for failure, it is proven to work and flourish.
The reason sokker declined was because of poor DEV leadership (which then become no DEV leadership), users not being listened too, small countries being ignored and trying to improve things only for Poland (which did not work, Poland has lost more used from its peak than all countries combined ever had users).
If you ignore 90% of nations, it means you are giving up 90% of your potential market.
Season length has never been an issue for Sokker. Sokker at its base form, is one of the best base form games of its time, which is why it become so popular, and was even making Hattrick scared. But the constant ignoring from DEVs and disappearing just to let it run itself, is what killed it, and if the new DEVs so the same, then it will be the same result and they will have wasted all their money and time they have put in.
(edited)
In sokker you get busy for a couple of weeks and your season is alive. You want to take time away from the game (for any reason), you may drop one league level, in short game you lose all the hard work you put in and might as well start again.
I have joined and quit many short manager games. I'd have a lot of fun, but for only a week, or maximum a month.
But sokker, I played for 10yrs the first time around, and now another few years.
The only other game I have done this with is another management game, that is flourishing after implementing some good changes. And guess what, they still have 14 week league fixtures like sokker, and between a 2 and 4 week off season, which is equal/longer than sokker.
So no, 14 weeks is not a lot, it is not a recipe for failure, it is proven to work and flourish.
The reason sokker declined was because of poor DEV leadership (which then become no DEV leadership), users not being listened too, small countries being ignored and trying to improve things only for Poland (which did not work, Poland has lost more used from its peak than all countries combined ever had users).
If you ignore 90% of nations, it means you are giving up 90% of your potential market.
Season length has never been an issue for Sokker. Sokker at its base form, is one of the best base form games of its time, which is why it become so popular, and was even making Hattrick scared. But the constant ignoring from DEVs and disappearing just to let it run itself, is what killed it, and if the new DEVs so the same, then it will be the same result and they will have wasted all their money and time they have put in.
(edited)
You're right. but we must take some points:
1. At what point did the sokker start to decline.
2. what to do to attract new users.
Remember that when the sokker peaked, there were no smartphones. we went to the wednesday night waiting for training, each one at his desk pc.
I would love to continue like this, but unfortunately the user profile has changed, the sokker must move on together.
(edited)
1. At what point did the sokker start to decline.
2. what to do to attract new users.
Remember that when the sokker peaked, there were no smartphones. we went to the wednesday night waiting for training, each one at his desk pc.
I would love to continue like this, but unfortunately the user profile has changed, the sokker must move on together.
(edited)
In my opinion, the critical points for the loss of users were the change in the junior system, and especially the implementation of this ridiculous new design.
i think we getting out of topic maybe we should move in separate topic free discussion cause our friends mods tomorrow morning will not be happy :)
I don't disagree with you on those points.
The change in the youth system made people angry, the new designs made people leave.
But it wasn't so much what they did that killed sokker, it was that the community didn't want these to start with. The DEVs thought they knew best despite the community saying no, the DEVs did what they wanted anyway to prove people wrong, and people left and never returned.
So whilst changes occured and people left, it's base issue was the not listening to the community.
People were calling out for small nations to be combined to keep interest up, people were calling out to protect national team players from being stuck in bot/banned teams or being fired when they were less than 19 of between the ages of 22 and 25,where they would be future stars but not actively in squads.
People didn't want and didn't like the 3D viewer but this was pushed on to us (thankfully they let us still use the 2D if we wanted).
Yes smartphones have been a massive killer to all games like this, but you can't turn this in to a FIFA management game, what you can do is make it more app friendly. I can't watch or set tactics on my phone.
(edited)
The change in the youth system made people angry, the new designs made people leave.
But it wasn't so much what they did that killed sokker, it was that the community didn't want these to start with. The DEVs thought they knew best despite the community saying no, the DEVs did what they wanted anyway to prove people wrong, and people left and never returned.
So whilst changes occured and people left, it's base issue was the not listening to the community.
People were calling out for small nations to be combined to keep interest up, people were calling out to protect national team players from being stuck in bot/banned teams or being fired when they were less than 19 of between the ages of 22 and 25,where they would be future stars but not actively in squads.
People didn't want and didn't like the 3D viewer but this was pushed on to us (thankfully they let us still use the 2D if we wanted).
Yes smartphones have been a massive killer to all games like this, but you can't turn this in to a FIFA management game, what you can do is make it more app friendly. I can't watch or set tactics on my phone.
(edited)
Even though I like the season a little faster I agree with you on all accounts. I wouldn't want to go below 14 weeks either, if I were given a choice.
Something I learned in economy is : Never move into the middle , meaning you either scale up and produce mass with low prices or you have a low production with high prices and the same applies here to SK. I think with 12 weeks season you won't really appeal to fast gamers, while at the same time running the risk to aliante current user base. So to say Sk moves into the unprofitable middle segment.
And one thing is for sure : No one is entirely objective and free of bias, not even Raul and I say that with all due respect, merely stating the fact, not about accusation. I belive with have seen some of this "unwilling" bias allready when there was this talk about 6th polish division. Sure other nations were kept in mind within this duscussion, but first priority was polish users. After all Raul is from Poland so I wouldn't blame him. I think that is somethign the dev team needs to be aware and keep in mind with their thought process.
Spot in. In a short game, you go away for a couple of days, get busy with real life, season is over.
In sokker you get busy for a couple of weeks and your season is alive. You want to take time away from the game (for any reason), you may drop one league level, in short game you lose all the hard work you put in and might as well start again.
I have joined and quit many short manager games. I'd have a lot of fun, but for only a week, or maximum a month.
But sokker, I played for 10yrs the first time around, and now another few years.
The only other game I have done this with is another management game, that is flourishing after implementing some good changes. And guess what, they still have 14 week league fixtures like sokker, and between a 2 and 4 week off season, which is equal/longer than sokker.
So no, 14 weeks is not a lot, it is not a recipe for failure, it is proven to work and flourish.
The reason sokker declined was because of poor DEV leadership (which then become no DEV leadership), users not being listened too, small countries being ignored and trying to improve things only for Poland (which did not work, Poland has lost more used from its peak than all countries combined ever had users).
If you ignore 90% of nations, it means you are giving up 90% of your potential market.
Season length has never been an issue for Sokker. Sokker at its base form, is one of the best base form games of its time, which is why it become so popular, and was even making Hattrick scared. But the constant ignoring from DEVs and disappearing just to let it run itself, is what killed it, and if the new DEVs so the same, then it will be the same result and they will have wasted all their money and time they have put in.
(edited)
Something I learned in economy is : Never move into the middle , meaning you either scale up and produce mass with low prices or you have a low production with high prices and the same applies here to SK. I think with 12 weeks season you won't really appeal to fast gamers, while at the same time running the risk to aliante current user base. So to say Sk moves into the unprofitable middle segment.
And one thing is for sure : No one is entirely objective and free of bias, not even Raul and I say that with all due respect, merely stating the fact, not about accusation. I belive with have seen some of this "unwilling" bias allready when there was this talk about 6th polish division. Sure other nations were kept in mind within this duscussion, but first priority was polish users. After all Raul is from Poland so I wouldn't blame him. I think that is somethign the dev team needs to be aware and keep in mind with their thought process.
Spot in. In a short game, you go away for a couple of days, get busy with real life, season is over.
In sokker you get busy for a couple of weeks and your season is alive. You want to take time away from the game (for any reason), you may drop one league level, in short game you lose all the hard work you put in and might as well start again.
I have joined and quit many short manager games. I'd have a lot of fun, but for only a week, or maximum a month.
But sokker, I played for 10yrs the first time around, and now another few years.
The only other game I have done this with is another management game, that is flourishing after implementing some good changes. And guess what, they still have 14 week league fixtures like sokker, and between a 2 and 4 week off season, which is equal/longer than sokker.
So no, 14 weeks is not a lot, it is not a recipe for failure, it is proven to work and flourish.
The reason sokker declined was because of poor DEV leadership (which then become no DEV leadership), users not being listened too, small countries being ignored and trying to improve things only for Poland (which did not work, Poland has lost more used from its peak than all countries combined ever had users).
If you ignore 90% of nations, it means you are giving up 90% of your potential market.
Season length has never been an issue for Sokker. Sokker at its base form, is one of the best base form games of its time, which is why it become so popular, and was even making Hattrick scared. But the constant ignoring from DEVs and disappearing just to let it run itself, is what killed it, and if the new DEVs so the same, then it will be the same result and they will have wasted all their money and time they have put in.
(edited)
We should have a serious discussion about "shorten" a season.... its again and again...
16, 15, 14, 13 even 12 weeks (!) : That's not SHORT.
We should threw away this idea (from devs, i admit) and focus on number of actions, challenges in a WEEK, not a season. Then according to weeks challenges and actions, define a season. POINT.
please :-)
16, 15, 14, 13 even 12 weeks (!) : That's not SHORT.
We should threw away this idea (from devs, i admit) and focus on number of actions, challenges in a WEEK, not a season. Then according to weeks challenges and actions, define a season. POINT.
please :-)
If fixing the bugs are the priority, why not fixing the arcade games bug right now along with the relegation bug in junior leagues ?
Today, playing arcades games skip the restriction of the immediate resale of the players, allowing very high frequency day trading. This is clearly a bug as it was not intends to be like this when arcade games were implemented.
2020-04-24 11:36:35
Raul para Damien2a
Right - we will try to fix it too.
What about this Raul? When??
(edited)
Today, playing arcades games skip the restriction of the immediate resale of the players, allowing very high frequency day trading. This is clearly a bug as it was not intends to be like this when arcade games were implemented.
2020-04-24 11:36:35
Raul para Damien2a
Right - we will try to fix it too.
What about this Raul? When??
(edited)
Added to the list, but hard to say for now - currently we need to focus on flash elements.
(edited)
(edited)
We wait for years without updates. This fix is planned. Just wait.
I understand perfectly. but it isn’t update, this is a bug that some managers are taking advantage. Big difference. Anyway ,we will wait
I can tell you many "bugs" where managers are taking advantage... The good news is that bug is approved to be fixed.
You right, we also want to change that as fast as it can be, but even from last experiences we see, that we need to make any changes very carefully - even small adjustments (like stadium visuals yesterday) can be a bit surprising, as long we work with really old code we cant hurry.
Ok ok I understand. everything is more complicated than it seems. I know you are working hard. cheer up ;)