Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

In real life you get training from TRAINING.

@Mint-Berry Crunch
in the scenario we assume, each user will be guaranteed at least two official matches a week, which will allow 10 training slots to be filled with players who have played at least one full match.

all bonuses that players will receive, will be checked and calibrated first on the test server. they will not have a critical impact on training-effects, but will be a delicate reward for ambitious managers ;)

@speziell fur litttlefish ;)
in dem angenommenen szenario werden jedem user mindestens zwei offizielle spiele jeder woche garantiert, wodurch 10 trainingsplatze mit spielern besetzt werden können, die mindestens ein vollstandiges spiel hatten.

alle extras, die spieler erhalten, werden zuerst auf dem testserver uberpruft und kalibriert. sie werden keinen kritischen einfluss auf das training haben, aber eine kleine belohnung für ehrgeizige user sein ;)

(guys there is nothing more than in english above. I just used the opportunity to speak german again ;-) )

In IRL, there are almost only official matchs.

Will be very important the coach, isn't true?
Now we can begin with a coach who only have capacity of training speed
Than, we pick coaches that knows how to train skills for mid, or for strikers.

Only old users has complet coaches.
My coach, for exemple have not high capacity to train GK.
Usually, the teams who get to have a complet coach (which is imortal, and this is an essencial feature) stay with him until the and of the world.

And now? How will it be?
(edited)

so basically the training will not change as drastically as it seems at first sight ... only you will be able to train different attributes for each compartment ... which seems like a good idea

but in this case I think speed training will have to be rethought because it will create a pretty big discrepancy between speed (which is the hardest to train anyway) and the other attributes

how the new pace training system could work :

variant 1 - ( maybe the easieast )any junior to start with a minimum skill... let's say level 6-7 if speed will be between 0-17+ or 3 if speed will be 0-11 like stamina

variant 2 (maybe more complicated but maybe closer to reality) - speed to be an attribute native who will be able to train very little... a player can increase by about 30% above the native level (if he starts with level 6-7 then he can be maximum level 9-10) and that until about 23 years old ... then between 24 and 27 to stay same and after 28 slightly to start to decrease

variant 3 - depending on how many weeks per season in the future if all others attribute would grow harder let speed grow at current speed or even a bit quicker... it should become the easiest attribute to train besides stamina

Ok, that seems very reasonable. I was just afraid that the option of training 5 young players and having the choice to be competitive in only 1 cup would'nt be a possibility. Sometimes I just want to choose to be competitive in only the league or only the national cup. I get the point why you want to reward players who want to be ambitious in every part of the game, just don't let the punishment for others be to harsh. I have ambitions in the long run, but if I would be punished in the short term my ambitions could never be reality.

But if this wouldn't be critical on training-effects it's a reassurance for me.

Thanks for the answer!

Some things appear uncertain to me, might have gotten lost in translation.

For lower league teams or newer users how will it be possible to catch up to higher division teams? Will it be possible to get extra training with more minutes of playtime in matches? I mean now top teams seem to profit from extra training more , cause they got stronger opponents and more competitions or is this allways seen in relation of corresponding matches played? Meaning I am weaker team in a certain match so I profit from bonuses. Ther latter would make training screens nearly impossible to use.

The other concern I have is why do you announce something that is 3 seasons off? This should be coming next season or not having been announced. Seen this in another sport, putting things so far off causes much uncertainty and dissatisfaction, which is never good for a userbase.

Forgot something.

I totally get why you want to reward users who play more competitive , but I think you are forgetting about one of sokkers corefeatures: Everyone can play sokker in his own way. I mean I have been here for so long I enjoy sokker just for the training part and juniors. For me it's not all about competition. I can't see how I could enjoy 100 % training bonuses for my players in the new system without being forced a gameplay upon me which just isn't my cup of tea anymore. I just like to train players efficiently without being forced to think about success continously.

Could be possible that I can't see your vision yet or it hasn't been fully explained. Maybe you can clarify.


(edited)

New players will never be able to promote from their division in season one or two. They need to be entertained and engaged to be kept along. We shall se for how long.

Well, that bonus will be additional, most important is just time played - but idea is, to support new users and weaker teams - you get that bonus, when you play against stronger team, not when you play at team at your level. (it's a kind of additional reward for playing against stronger users). So finally, it helps (only a bit) to chase others.

About motivations for winning - well, for sure, we undestand your point and remember about it - for sure it will be still allowed to have fun from different areas of game. It's not our goal, to force everyone to get to the top. We will give some small motivations in few places, to make results more attractive (so to avoid situations as it's today - some managers playing in lower divisions to collect money, and then in 2-3 seasons attack the top). But i would call it motivations, not punishments. And they woudn't be to strong.

thanks Raul for info.

I don't know what to say, surely this is not a modification of the game but a revolution. this is a completely different training system, another game.

honestly i can't fully understand the implications, i ask you only one favor:

Please test this aspect very very carefully and do it calmly. this aspect cannot be wrong, if we "unbalance" the game becomes a big problem.

Things are very fogy for me right now.
You have 10 slots for the main training (because I understand that now, with more matches/week you can switch more than 6 ATT/week for example).
Can yoiu use this slots to train in the same week technique for 4 players, defender for 3 players and playmaker for 3 players or you can't?

The other concern I have is why do you announce something that is 3 seasons off? This should be coming next season or not having been announced. Seen this in another sport, putting things so far off causes much uncertainty and dissatisfaction, which is never good for a userbase.

I have the same thought. So far, I have not understood why announcing something that will happen in three seasons, this could cause a decline in the number of users before the changes are implemented.

with the existing system if I want to train for expample technique, in one defender one midfielder and one striker
should in the League match, the striker and the defender let's say to have MID orders but with reduce performance which would negatively effect the team in order to take oround 90% training points
Or would play with normal orders on league match with best performance but on the friendly match should be with MID order and in this case they would take around 75% of the max training

In new training system will be able to do this without the player's performance being a effected, but also with the ability to get 100% of training points
So we can have a stronger team more balanced more competitive team with fewer sacrifices

on the other hand, may is most important to separate the national cup /international competition in more levels by ranking because will not need a team to sacrifice an οfiicial competion like cup for the training
and will be able to present as strong as possible in all events at least for a some in row seasons

also Maybe and transfer limit should be set per season so that there is no long duration at the peak of a stronger team
only from transfers

Thanks for the regular updates, it really helps users to keep informed about the future of the game. I only have a worries regarding how this change effects the current trainings and the value these training can give you.

Let’s consider a simple example with 2 users, one trains defender skill one trains keeper skill before the system change. Assume, that there are some players which are young, and can be bought relatively cheap, but with training they can be sold with some great profit at any positions (I think this is a fair assumption). Also assume, that teams have an A-team for competitivity (somewhat older, more valuable players), and a B-team where on trained post, they buy these cheap for profit players (so in our example, one keeper trainer has 1 young-for-profit GK, other has DEFs like this). This is some restriction that is necessary to keep the example easier to understand.

If the market’s current state is in balance, you would need to achieve more or less the same profit on your portfolio weather you train keeper (for 1 GK) or defender (for 5 DEF) skill. (According to microeconomic principles if this is not true, than people would change from the less profitable form of training to the other until the profitability gets somewhat equal.) In this case, one GK should give you about 5 times as much profit as the one defender.

My presumption is that in the new system, instead of buying a keeper with high keeper skill, people just going to sacrifice 1 slot from their squad and train a similar GK for much cheaper (cheaper because then it will then only take 10% of the slots instead of 50%), making current keeper skill training worth a lot less, and effecting current training strategies. More generally I think this change is going to favor users who currently train skills that can be trained to more players over users who train only 2 or 6 players with keeper or striker skills.

What do you think about this issue? Thank you so much for you work and for your time reading this.

Since the official game counts more for training I will be forever in low divisions training 18-year-old player to make money.