Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

Since the official game counts more for training I will be forever in low divisions training 18-year-old player to make money.

I guess I don't have a full grasp of the training concept yet... Regardless, I do like the new approach it is just more realistic and flexible. Even though it changes sokker quite a bit I am open to it. I certainly believe their might be an advantge in the way that this training concept will find more appeal with new users. The old system provides a challenge too, but it is more the sort of challenge geeks enjoy I would say.

And don't get me wrong I am still competing at II. Division in Germany. So I guess I am in between, while reasonable succesfull I could have promoted years ago, but I enjoy it more finding talented juniors, preferably in my own school and training them for my club.

Still I think it is a mistake to announce something like this while it is still so far off from coming into reality.

I thought I got the message, until Mekene gave an explanation, contradictory to what Raul said :-s

In what I got from what Raul said, this is the case:

Order slots:

GK: Custom training example: Goalkeeper
DEF: Custom training example: Defender
MID: Custom training example: Playmaking
ATT: Custom training example: Striker

These training presets counts for ALL PLAYERS who are within training slots AND/OR played matches with this order!
So players who DIDN'T played matches but are set within the training slots WILL STILL RECEIVE a fixed % of TRAINING!
Players who WEREN'T SET IN THE TRAINING SLOTS but did play matches ALSO STILL RECEIVE a fixed % of TRAINING!

Player slots:

1: Player G: GK order
2: Player Z: DEF order
3: Player B: DEF order
4: Player D: DEF order
5: Player Q: DEF order
6: Player M: MID order
7: Player W: MID order
8: Player L: MID order
9: Player A: ATT order
10: Player S: ATT order

This means player 1 will receive GK training which is set at Goalkeeper
Players 2 to 5 will receive DEF training which is set at Defender
Players 6 to 8 will receive MID training which is set at Playmaking
Players 9 to 11 will receive ATT training which is set at Striker

Now the player slots can be adjusted in a way that:

- MAX 2 out of the 10 slots can be set for GK training
- MAX 6 out of the 10 slots can be set for ATT training
- ALL slots can be set for MID training
- ALL slots can be set for DEF training

Now for me the confusing part is that Mekene stated that ONLY PLAYERS WHO PLAYED MATCHES will receive training...

I wonder, which is the correct version?

(edited)

From Legolas at post 1:

6. The players who are not assigned to the training slots and who are not playing a match are slowly losing their skills.

I think these guys will not receive training.

There will be a lot of people manipulating the national rankings for more training.

There is no mention about coaches. And it should be when it is about training.

What will happen to old ones 70+ yo?
Will the current recruitment system change?
Will there be same coach system: 1 head, 3 assistants?
If I want to train keeper, passing, striker, defender at once, should head coach have all those skills unearthly?

I know there is time for this, but its kinda important.
(edited)

The current system is better. I'm thinking about it and it is just better.

This new, dumbed-down system might be more appealing to a lot of people, because they can train all the positions, but that is what ruins this new system. The fact that you can train anyone, any position.

With the current system you need to think about the long term strategy, you can't do everything, you need to manage. That is what makes a good manager game. Managing.

Nobody is gonna sell a good junior, because everyone can fit anyone in their training "plan." You will need to rely only your own YS, and if you are not lucky enough, well, the joke is on you. And that will happen, because the YS system is random upon random. Number of new juniors, skill level, age, number weeks, talent, all random.
But maybe they are gonna heavily reduce the randomness of the YS. And then it will be fair, we will have the same juniors, and then the same players, and we can all enjoy in a very boring game.

There lies the beauty of the current training system. It can neutralize that incredibly ridiculous YS system. You can be the unluckiest dude on the planet, but if you are a good manager, you can make it. How are you gonna make if you have bad juniors and there is no good talent to buy...

6. The players who are not assigned to the training slots and who are not playing a match are slowly losing their skills.

The "AND" between the 2 is very important!!

You speak about good management with the current system, but the thing is, it's not even required to have a minimum of managing skills with the current system. Even people who doesn't understand the basics op football can play this game and be good at it...

With the new system, a more balanced way of managing is required to be able to reach the top, so much more managing skills are required to get the hang of it. So the challenge gets bigger, and with the majority of older users stating this is a game and not real life, shouldn't it be at least a bit challenging to play?

If you like the basics more, there's always "solitaire"...

Well, if you like the dumbed-down version there is always picking your nose...

That is your opinion...
I really don't see this as a dumbed-down version... Far from, actually!

I think you are overstating it a bit. You stil have to manage. It isn't like your hands are not tight in any way there are still restrictions. I doubt that one can be that unlucky not to receive any talented junior in YS. Certainly it makes YS more important and usefull and I find that more realistic than selling a 16y-18y for millions.

I also play another game which has even more say on the skills trained (each player has his own training), and I can guarantee, you still sell of very talented, very good youths, just because you already have other good trainees.

I'd hate to see sokker go to individualised training, so I'm glad they still have some restrictions in place, but although we will be able to train our best talents if we wish, there will still be plenty of good players going to the TL.

The more I think about it, the more I like the change, but what I think it really does, is allow a lot of new teams to train some of the players they were given.

Coming back to the game, the hardest thing was getting together a bunch of trainees. Now although most of the new teams players will be useless, it's kind of a half step in between what it was like starting out again, and I think it will be promising.

There is also nothing more deflating than being a new team, and finally pulling a couple of decent youths, after you have set everything up, only to find out they don't need what you are training. As an experienced team, with the potential of good youths coming every few weeks, it's not a big deal, but as a new one, it is a huge deal. And training up your own players can really give you a real sense of accomplishment and ownership in the game, so can keep someone around for 10 or so seasons by itself

Indeed. I couldn't agree more. What I wanted to stress is for one the notion about realistic feeling and the economical side. Now as you allready stated you can train juniors which were before untrainable and unsellable which will increase value of juniors. So you can now have the best of two worlds, either sell or train and both would be worthwhile.

To be only dependend pon luck to sell junior for millions to make ys worthwhile was a bad concept. For me it was interesting as it provided a challenge since it was only worth having a ys if you decided to train your juniors yourself, but I like the new system better.

And I really believe we should have a poll when or how fast to introduce this new system. I doubt that I am alone that 2-3 seasons from now is too far off. Though there might be physical restrictions one how fast it can be introduced..manpower, coding etc.

I don't think it's so much that they want to take 2-3 seasons, it's just that they want to make sure it is as they intend before they release.

So when they say 2-3 seasons, they know it wont be done in the next week/fortnight, so not ready for next season. Meaning the earliest they could implement it is after this coming season. But because there may be hurdles, don't want to promise that.

It will be out as soon as they can, but from the start of a season. It's all we can expect too, and it is the most fair way to do it (rather than a random week in the middle of a season)

Certainly at the beginnign of a new season would be preferable. I sincerely hope it's not more off than 1 season, anything else would be a disappointment.
(edited)