Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

excellent !

Could it be a good idea if training didn't depend on conditional orders? I'll try to explain better...
For example, if I wanted to train my goalkeeper in passing or my midfielder in attack or my striker in defense it would be good if I felt free to decide, but this could happen only if all training had 100% of efficiency whatever was the conditional order of players.

If you don't stop to think about it, what you said is what the common sense says. But that would cause weaker teams not to improve and that is one of the biggest problems nowadays, I say it by myself experience. It is very difficult to get good players, plus good economy, plus good training with low economic incomes, so if you have certain level you can expect better incomes because you would have the level to compete the national cup. In my case, when I got out of the cup on the one hand, I lose money by less ticket income with friendlies and, on the other hand, by loosing training and there is a double punishment, because other teams get more money and more training, increasing the differences. And you, as a weaker team, can't do nothing because your situation is on the edge.

By helping weaker teams, maybe those teams are allowed to improve their teams easier and try to increase their level. This would help on the competition.

Mostly I've enjoyed proposed training changes as they more closely resemble real life. However, there are some things that are subject to improve IMO.

> 3. Minutes played in official games will be much more valuable than the same minutes gained in friendly games.
That makes sense as in a real life players who play competitive matches improve faster. But also in a real life strong teams who have reached the top can't afford to put a lot of young players in a roster since those teams need to show excellent results. That is why top teams loan young players to weaker teams, so they get match experience. Also, that is the thing that could allow smaller teams to get results easier I guess. And that is the point of concern for a lot of users here.

> The players who are not assigned to the training slots and who are not playing a match are slowly losing their skills.
Does this mean that players who play friendly matches and not assigned to training slots are losing their skills too?

> 7. The players who played an official match and against stronger teams will gain an extra bonus to their training.
That makes sense. Players improve better when there is a strong competition. But what if the team plays a match against much weaker competition? For me that would mean that players can't improve much in such a game.

But, major reason is a bit different - league system reorganization and presented yesterday training reform are most important changes we want to introduce (so, for lot of you it will be great info, main part of revolution stops here;), other ideas will rather be an extensions, than changes) That's why we want to start discussion with these two areas, becouse it will be also a starting point for any other work we need to do. It also works pretty well to use your experience and knowledge, we already used lot of user ideas for our modernisation plan.

New training and competition model requires dedicated new game interface, so without closing that stage, we cant move forward with UX designing and some other.

2-3 seasons will give us a time, to prepare game mechanics, create dedicated new interface, develop some dedicated tools to help you playing (for example, for managing with more games per week, we belive we need better mobile access, saving line ups for differenf competitions, etc.), and finally give enough time for testing (and it's crucial part at the end, to make sure everything works good).

So - sorry for keep you waiting, but i seems the only way of working:)

I perfectly understand. Things take time to get done. I wish it were diffent, cause now I wish I wouldn't know what I do know:)

Something else that concerns me and it is along the lines of what I mentioned previously about taking away choices of managers how to approach the game. With a shortned season you will have to do something else with stamina training. It also means that I do not have the choice any longer to vote against stamina training in the last 2 weeks and instead train my 10-5 most talented players. That is extra training which is lost, a choice which is lost meaning sokker looses another interesting possibility. I think as I said before, you need to be carefull about diminishing game choices. Please keep it in mind as they enrich the game experience.

Sure you speed up game in the process, but it shgouldn't happen by loosing options.

The players who are not assigned to the training slots and who are not playing a match are slowly losing their skills.

Again, the "and" between the 2 makes a huge difference!
Only players who don't played a match, nor did they get a spot in the training slots will slowly losing skills, but Raul reassured allready that it will be age restricted, so normally younger players won't have (or only very very miner) degrading impact from this.

@manumanyes: If you put it that way, it makes sence. The only thing I feel is that multiple teams will try to exploid this rule. I'm ok with it if rules exclude clubs who dropped down more than 1 level, so clubs relegating from 2nd to 3th and later to 4th...

How are we going to train players who are not in the first team for the next 2 to 3 seasons if friendly matches no longer matter to training as Raul recently wrote.

couple of days not on Sokker, 727 missed posts in this forum ....

I hope they won't destroy this game, nothing else for me to find here anymore. Can't keep up with so many posts.

Right, stamina is on our list too, we need to reconsider it, together with one week break between seasons.

Friendlies will metter much less, but not a 0.

With new rules:
1. all players in traning slots will get basic training.
To get max - its best to give them a full game played

But still there are some scale between these two points:

1. basic training + full friendly = not so bad training (not max, but good)
2. basic training + friendly + few minutes in league game = pretty close to maximum

etc.

It's really not so far from today - it's almost the same to be honest, just fitted into more games per week.
For now friendly game is also less training than official one - it's the same rule.

Well, economic differences between each league level is so high, so being relegated on purpose is a crazy thing. But maybe it could be detected...
(edited)

But today, friendlies and league matches are only 5% difference.

Can you say approximaly how much % a basic training will be (training slot)

70% - 80% - 50%?
Just to have an idea :-)

Lots of teams do it...
They sell their entire squad, buy all young top trainees and relegate to the bottom in order to focus on training. Pure training!
A significant % of managers don't care about results at all...

it's realy hard to say it now - but as i said - it will be not so far from today, rather just adjusted for new calendar. (remember, than in calendar proposals you have more official games too).

It will be even a bit easier from some perspective (more flexible, i would say), as long as basic training is gained always, even without game - so it will be also few new options, for example to decide to leave someone's match training, when you have important game and want to play with 100% best players. (no chances for it today, as it's 0% training at all).

It wont be significant. It will be a madness, to lose games to get it.
Rather an small additional motivation, when you have squad strong enough to get promoted, but you are worried about losing in higher division.