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Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what
They don't listen to the community.
We give life to the game and we are not valued.
They are killing the game, it is getting more and more boring.
They don't value users and they disrespect us.
Last time I paid Plus.
We should all stop paying it so that their pockets hurt so they can listen to us.
We give life to the game and we are not valued.
They are killing the game, it is getting more and more boring.
They don't value users and they disrespect us.
Last time I paid Plus.
We should all stop paying it so that their pockets hurt so they can listen to us.
Yes, I dont understand this worse communication also.
Next to that these tax is way too high in my opinion, having profit with young trainees is the only way up for new users.
So it is even more difficult to reach the top for them now.
Of course there have been some nice updates in the past seasons but this one is terrible.
I know some managers want this high tax, but it will be terrible for new users in my opinion.
(edited)
Next to that these tax is way too high in my opinion, having profit with young trainees is the only way up for new users.
So it is even more difficult to reach the top for them now.
Of course there have been some nice updates in the past seasons but this one is terrible.
I know some managers want this high tax, but it will be terrible for new users in my opinion.
(edited)
Can only agree with you guys. Just gave away 1.6M on taxes for my player whom was sold yesterday. This takes away the fun for me in this game. As said earlier, the lack of communication is inexcusable.
If you buy an untalented player then you will just have to be stuck with it for about 2-3 seasons at least. Oh, this will be so much fun!
If you buy an untalented player then you will just have to be stuck with it for about 2-3 seasons at least. Oh, this will be so much fun!
Yes, no fun anymore.
10% is ok, but these taxes are killing the fun and the chances for new users, as mentioned already.
10% is ok, but these taxes are killing the fun and the chances for new users, as mentioned already.
With the risk of going away a bit from the core of the discussion I would like to react on some things you say :
Indeed. And prices for young talents will rise further this way!
Nope, exactly the opposite.
The youth prices are already vastly inflated, to the points where top youths go for the same price that they will be valued at while at their peak (so they are trained for 8-10 seasons only to keep the base value).
If you limit the short-cycle trading training of mass traders then they will obviously not be able to bid every player and buy them constantly, so the prices will go down with time.
And the amount of available youths will be same since most youths at weekends come from youth schools - and they apparently have now a lower tax of 8% so it's even more profitable to sell them (I'd lower it to 5%).
What you will have less is overpriced youths that were bought 4-6 weeks prior, got 5 pops, a nice talent graph and now are being sold for base fee times 5-10. Which is not a problem, it's actually great news. :-)
Obviously you are one of the mass traders who sells players this way, so you can be angry with that change, but please stop with the nonsense of "no players will be sold now", "young players will have higher prices" :P
Iosif Manolescu [39012014]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2024-01-01 KSK Meeuwen Das Urgestein 26 821 920 zł
(449 000 zł)
2023-09-02 TTT174 KSK Meeuwen 2 000 000 zł
(139 000 zł)
Ivica Tomić [39035382]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2023-12-14 KSK Meeuwen Omladinac 39 800 400 zł
(575 000 zł)
2023-10-02 fap KSK Meeuwen 4 696 000 zł
(423 000 zł)
Your latest transfers. This is exactly why this change is GOOD and the tax should be even higher in the first 10 weeks.
This game has turned into fast trading bullshit.
Like I said earlier it's very easy to look at some individual cases of my team. Offcourse I had some luck with last two, but I emphasize again I also had some setbacks and lost more than 90% on a couple of my players after I trained them!
I see you find it a good case that youth go back to 5-8%... If I see your transferhistory I understand. You sold your youth Lefkowicz a week ago for 13 M Euro. It's logical you ask that. In the same way I can say to you that it's bullshit this game has changed into some "luck" bullshit game? You "earned" more from the inflated market than me, for sure. I train 5 trainees for my A-team within 4 season and 5 trainees to check talent and select them to train further or to sell again.
I mean, I wouldn't even mind that they implement it. The traders you describe won't change their behaviour because of that. They will only earn 8 M instead of 9 M on a transfer and other teams will wait to sell.
I would say also that in your case, it's very easy to criticise young teams who train some youngsters to get some "faster" money. You have a transferbalance of 300.000.000 Euro, big stadium, toptrainees, ... You can do whatever you want. You probably get this result more by training some talented players (who you definitely overpaid I would think) for several years. Now you ask other managers to do it in +/- the same way which means status quo or worse for my team in comparison to your team. For new teams the only way to move up is the trainingsystem. I can get equal trainers as you, that's a big + for new users and a way to focus on training and diminish the difference with the very rich clubs. If I don't get the same luck as you with youthschool in the near future, I have some problems. I also need the lost 600.000 Euro for essential changes to my stadium for example.
It's like the West uses 30 years coals as cheap energy for industry to progress and now says to upcoming economies : you can't use coal, it's bad for the environment...
I also see players who train some youngsters in each skill, 1 popup on each skill and sell again. You can see that in the Geston trainingtool. If I see that kind of player, I simply don't buy...
You can play the game in a lot of ways. Your team is rich, has a lot of luck with youth, is already old, ... You are only accumulating money. You are still in 4th division. You can say it's also not the way the game is "meant" to be played?
(edited)
Indeed. And prices for young talents will rise further this way!
Nope, exactly the opposite.
The youth prices are already vastly inflated, to the points where top youths go for the same price that they will be valued at while at their peak (so they are trained for 8-10 seasons only to keep the base value).
If you limit the short-cycle trading training of mass traders then they will obviously not be able to bid every player and buy them constantly, so the prices will go down with time.
And the amount of available youths will be same since most youths at weekends come from youth schools - and they apparently have now a lower tax of 8% so it's even more profitable to sell them (I'd lower it to 5%).
What you will have less is overpriced youths that were bought 4-6 weeks prior, got 5 pops, a nice talent graph and now are being sold for base fee times 5-10. Which is not a problem, it's actually great news. :-)
Obviously you are one of the mass traders who sells players this way, so you can be angry with that change, but please stop with the nonsense of "no players will be sold now", "young players will have higher prices" :P
Iosif Manolescu [39012014]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2024-01-01 KSK Meeuwen Das Urgestein 26 821 920 zł
(449 000 zł)
2023-09-02 TTT174 KSK Meeuwen 2 000 000 zł
(139 000 zł)
Ivica Tomić [39035382]
data od: do: cena (wartość)
2023-12-14 KSK Meeuwen Omladinac 39 800 400 zł
(575 000 zł)
2023-10-02 fap KSK Meeuwen 4 696 000 zł
(423 000 zł)
Your latest transfers. This is exactly why this change is GOOD and the tax should be even higher in the first 10 weeks.
This game has turned into fast trading bullshit.
Like I said earlier it's very easy to look at some individual cases of my team. Offcourse I had some luck with last two, but I emphasize again I also had some setbacks and lost more than 90% on a couple of my players after I trained them!
I see you find it a good case that youth go back to 5-8%... If I see your transferhistory I understand. You sold your youth Lefkowicz a week ago for 13 M Euro. It's logical you ask that. In the same way I can say to you that it's bullshit this game has changed into some "luck" bullshit game? You "earned" more from the inflated market than me, for sure. I train 5 trainees for my A-team within 4 season and 5 trainees to check talent and select them to train further or to sell again.
I mean, I wouldn't even mind that they implement it. The traders you describe won't change their behaviour because of that. They will only earn 8 M instead of 9 M on a transfer and other teams will wait to sell.
I would say also that in your case, it's very easy to criticise young teams who train some youngsters to get some "faster" money. You have a transferbalance of 300.000.000 Euro, big stadium, toptrainees, ... You can do whatever you want. You probably get this result more by training some talented players (who you definitely overpaid I would think) for several years. Now you ask other managers to do it in +/- the same way which means status quo or worse for my team in comparison to your team. For new teams the only way to move up is the trainingsystem. I can get equal trainers as you, that's a big + for new users and a way to focus on training and diminish the difference with the very rich clubs. If I don't get the same luck as you with youthschool in the near future, I have some problems. I also need the lost 600.000 Euro for essential changes to my stadium for example.
It's like the West uses 30 years coals as cheap energy for industry to progress and now says to upcoming economies : you can't use coal, it's bad for the environment...
I also see players who train some youngsters in each skill, 1 popup on each skill and sell again. You can see that in the Geston trainingtool. If I see that kind of player, I simply don't buy...
You can play the game in a lot of ways. Your team is rich, has a lot of luck with youth, is already old, ... You are only accumulating money. You are still in 4th division. You can say it's also not the way the game is "meant" to be played?
(edited)
Spectators should not attend the matches of unsuccessful teams. Also, they cannot find any sponsors. they will make a loss every week. If you wanna fight against those traders here is the solution for you.
then how can a new team become successful? new teams have no money, weak players etc, it takes time to transition from losing to winning
Of course, new teams will be excluded from this. For example, what I said should be for users who have spent 1 year in the game.
or 30 million euros in the club's safe. May be valid for clubs with a lot of money
(edited)
or 30 million euros in the club's safe. May be valid for clubs with a lot of money
(edited)
One Croatian user sold his own junior with fee around 8%! =/
Like I said, only way to run club (without profit) is to sell players from time to time, and I dont have best coaches (all brilliant with wages 27-33 000 €)!
I need at least 2 more seasons to get to play-off place and pay salaries from sponsorship and attendance income!
Second option is to replace trainees with old players and fire all the coaches! This is so wrong and I don't want to play this way!
I really do scouting players and kept only those with U21/NT potential! I found Surovy (one of best 18y Slovensko talents - 43 000, sadly must to sell him to upgrade training facilities), Løvenørn (19y Danmark U21 - 4000), Torres (18y Costa Rica U21 - 40 000), Hoang (for sure top 5 17y Viet Nam DEF/MID - 133 000) and paid players no more than 150k!
I have my own junior 17y potential Croatian U21 (probably top 5 in CRO)!
(I made few mistakes too, but it's part of manager job!)
That makes fun and keep me playing further! Anyway, I need to keep good (not top!) coaches!
We need taxes to go quicker to 10%, over 15 weeks should be enough!
Like I said, only way to run club (without profit) is to sell players from time to time, and I dont have best coaches (all brilliant with wages 27-33 000 €)!
I need at least 2 more seasons to get to play-off place and pay salaries from sponsorship and attendance income!
Second option is to replace trainees with old players and fire all the coaches! This is so wrong and I don't want to play this way!
I really do scouting players and kept only those with U21/NT potential! I found Surovy (one of best 18y Slovensko talents - 43 000, sadly must to sell him to upgrade training facilities), Løvenørn (19y Danmark U21 - 4000), Torres (18y Costa Rica U21 - 40 000), Hoang (for sure top 5 17y Viet Nam DEF/MID - 133 000) and paid players no more than 150k!
I have my own junior 17y potential Croatian U21 (probably top 5 in CRO)!
(I made few mistakes too, but it's part of manager job!)
That makes fun and keep me playing further! Anyway, I need to keep good (not top!) coaches!
We need taxes to go quicker to 10%, over 15 weeks should be enough!
Buy better coaches ofc. ;)
I had outstanding and excellent at this time...
(edited)
I had outstanding and excellent at this time...
(edited)
nice! yea, I also ran my team - first sold players to improve stadium, now running negative and invested in YS and training. The newly "invented" tax is a problem - I could understand 25% tax in first 4 weeks but 40 weeks is way too much
One Croatian user sold his own junior with fee around 8%! =/
same here, 58 € from 63 € is 8% tax for a fresh junior from school
same here, 58 € from 63 € is 8% tax for a fresh junior from school
All I will respond to you is that my budget + players are worth around 250m euro
The problem is that I don't give a fuck about it because this game is pointless in current form and I don't feel any need to play it in any way, because it has turned into a fast meat selling competition, it's the only way to make good money here. And it's fucking easy to do, you don't need any talent or intelligence, just have to be online 24/7 especially during weekends. If someone is a lying scumbag who will make up and lie with talent screens etc. then it's even easier to get rich.
Now, the issue is that there's no point in getting rich because this game sucks and barely anyone actually plays it, most people just train youths because playing for results is not fun and only makes you lose lots of money every season. And to compete you need at least 200m euro in the bank/team, otherwise other rich people will win instead of you.
The whole game is flawed at basic level. You don't get it because you are at low level, only starting the game and I understand that. When you get to level 70+ then you will see what I mean.
The problem is that I don't give a fuck about it because this game is pointless in current form and I don't feel any need to play it in any way, because it has turned into a fast meat selling competition, it's the only way to make good money here. And it's fucking easy to do, you don't need any talent or intelligence, just have to be online 24/7 especially during weekends. If someone is a lying scumbag who will make up and lie with talent screens etc. then it's even easier to get rich.
Now, the issue is that there's no point in getting rich because this game sucks and barely anyone actually plays it, most people just train youths because playing for results is not fun and only makes you lose lots of money every season. And to compete you need at least 200m euro in the bank/team, otherwise other rich people will win instead of you.
The whole game is flawed at basic level. You don't get it because you are at low level, only starting the game and I understand that. When you get to level 70+ then you will see what I mean.
You are right about losing money when you will play for results.
That is the biggest problem of sokker, the game is not competitive.
And now, with the high tax, it wont be fun anymore also.
Very good things in my opinion are the tactics and the match viewer.
But what we need is a competitive game and that is killed now with higher salaries, higher tax etc.
They promised we would get a more competitive game, but we got an even less competitive game instead.
(edited)
That is the biggest problem of sokker, the game is not competitive.
And now, with the high tax, it wont be fun anymore also.
Very good things in my opinion are the tactics and the match viewer.
But what we need is a competitive game and that is killed now with higher salaries, higher tax etc.
They promised we would get a more competitive game, but we got an even less competitive game instead.
(edited)
Well they obviously have no idea what they are doing, there is no big picture vision for this game.
They are making micro changes and then they are surprised by how they work. Vide introducing 2 games/week and then being surprised that they created an inflation, when some people told them from day 1 that it will happen because they are adding tons of extra money every season.
So then they started thinking how they can stop the inflation that they created, so they decided that the easy 1st step will be making wages much higher. Which is obviously stupid because before they announced that they will try to make the game more competitive, while their changes were good/neutral for people staying in low leagues, training youths and bad for teams that wanted to win something.
They are making micro changes and then they are surprised by how they work. Vide introducing 2 games/week and then being surprised that they created an inflation, when some people told them from day 1 that it will happen because they are adding tons of extra money every season.
So then they started thinking how they can stop the inflation that they created, so they decided that the easy 1st step will be making wages much higher. Which is obviously stupid because before they announced that they will try to make the game more competitive, while their changes were good/neutral for people staying in low leagues, training youths and bad for teams that wanted to win something.