Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

No, in reality youngsters are near the older players, sometimes they even reach the same skilks.
In sokker there is no chance that a 19y old can compete with a 29y old 1st team player.
You will see after reaching highest divisions.
In the Netherlands it will be the difference between 3e klasse amateurs and Eredivisie to make it more clear for you, totally nonsense that will never happen in real life, accept in cup ;)
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The coach has to decide: more development for young players or a stronger team on the pitch. He has to make this decision in reality and also here at Sokker it should be made.

Exactly, so not a competitive game.
You have to decide being competive or playing with youngsters and relegate.
No way you will be at 1st place in highest league with 4/5 youngsters in your team.
And if will not use youngsters you will lose around 1.5 million at every old player in your team a season.
I do play this game for so long that I know the weak point of this game at every site. I will not try to explain the other 7 weak points ;)
Like this game, so dont want to ruin it ;)

So:
This game is totally not competitive and even less competitive than in the past.
Non competitive did reach top in the last seasons.

But..., still this is the best game I have ever played :)
That is the reason that I am so worried...

So please split training from competition.
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"So top teams will play for results, get incomes, and in the same time train effectively young players - no matter if only for sale or for future - how in that reality new player can reach old users? Game need balance, tou need to sacrife something and make some choices."


to remain a top team you need much more money than you get from sponsors and tickets. so a good part of the money obtained from the training will go to replace the players from the first team.
how can you say that user will make more money than a user who only trains, where almost all the money goes to the balance of the club. this logic ends me mentally...

"No way you will be at 1st place in highest league with 4/5 youngsters in your team."

The question is whether you could play at the top in reality with half a young team ...

But I readily admit that the commitment here is too extreme. The importance of playing minutes should be reduced so that young players can get their 100% training with less playing time. Then it would still be necessary to give the young players playing time, but not as much.

Correct.
Good way to do this is with some extra training in U21. But this is less also now, no training in friendlies.

You don’t understand yet the level required at the top. There is no place for youths there, or even 24yo players.

To achieve anything at the highest level you need a team playing for rating 80+. To do that you need top players in their prime (27-31).

There is no place and time for training at the top, there are no resources to even invest in youths because you spend all your resources into first team for a chance to win something during 2-5 seasons and then you go down and only train players.

That’s how it looks in Poland, obviously in small countries it is possible to win while training because the level is very low.

U21 training is not an answer. It’a for a very limited number of players and it’s mostly for 21yo players - so it doesn’t solve anything for 16-20yo players.

New users can train for 100% with youngsters only and will earn a lot of money if they learn how to do. They dont need older players.
Teams in highest division will earn money also with youngsters but will loose money at their older players, so newcomers will earn more money after some time untill they reach the same level as the current top managers.

I am so worried the devs dont see the point.
The only thing they do is to get money out of the game, of course this is important also, but useless if you forget to make the game more competitive.
I dont want this game to die.
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of course, the problem is not with those users who sit in the lower leagues and make 200-400M Euros, the problem is with those who do not know how to make another penny to be able to change 1-2 old players from the first team......

Not the most important solution indeed.
Only way is to split training from competition as I said already.
But I know they wont do this, so I will relegate again and build my team at lower league with corner tactics. They give me no other choice as having a boring game for a year in real life and than coming back with a strong team.
I hope I will still like the game than and wont leave as many People did before me.

Please devs listen to the People!!!
Look at the numbers, many managers do leave the game because of this.
Sorry, but you are so headstrong.
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There is no place and time for training at the top,

there is, but only with 85% effectivity. And you can money with 85%, just a bit less than with 96%.

Not at the top. You play national cup for more than half of the season

What I try to explain is that the game is not competitive. 85% is too less to stay at top because you loose more money at older players than you will win training for 85%.
So after a while you need to relegate and to be not competitive.
96% is difficult also, but 11% is a lot in this case.
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Do you want to help new users? ok, give them 5-10-20 ME starting budget, I don't mind. but dont f*** my game play without giving me any chance to stay at the same level and to be forced to retire to the lower leagues for 2 real years...

Exactly my point.
Daily there are leaving managers because of this.

Looking at real life, do you want to join a top club that can train you 85% only?
Than you tell this 18y old youngster that he first needs to be competitive to make any minute in 1st team at 27y, lol!
This makes totally no sense.
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instead of being encouraged to have as many good teams in the game as possible, they are encouraged:
- after you promote in a top league, sell the players and play 40 mark team
- after relegating from a top league, you sell and play with 30 marks
- instead of normal matches----tactical corner
And then we wonder why sokker is not going in the right direction, it cannot go only with the pressroom brothers!