Subject: »[info]DevDiary 80: “Price is what you pay, value is what

random fixtures --> it is on the list and yes, it is a easy one, so should be introduced in some of upcoming seasons.

Reducing the reform of fans' expectations to finances is a complete oversimplification. Yes, it's true that with this change, users who have a large budget but don't invest it will be "penalized" – but that's logical. If we have a league where teams are fairly evenly matched, it's a mid-level league, and one of the managers has a huge frozen budget – why shouldn't fans expect championships from them? They have all the means to ensure it, the strength of the club doesn't just come from the last position in the league and the strength of the squad, we all know perfectly well that budget in Sokker is crucial.

Expectations serve a much more interesting function – they provide short-term goals for each player, the fulfillment (or surpassing) of which generates profits. This is important because in Sokker there are very different players, and for new players, the prospect of winning the country's championship is a multi-year dream on the horizon. That's why it's good that the game sets tasks for the player. I think we'll expand this system and add various other seasonal goals to achieve, which will provide the opportunity to obtain specific bonuses.

What i miss in sokker is a sponsors system. Punisch daytraders will not have any result and seriously, they don't do bad things, why schoud sokker punisch them? The problem is much more that the financial distance between leagues is too short. In real football most of the manager FEAR a promotion because they know everything will cost 20-50 times more and it rump up really fast because good and fenomenal players are a very exclusive club. They are very rare and cost a lot. In real football sponsors are the only way to go and as soon as you loose a season they kick you... there..

For example Kudziel goalie for the national team in Poland costs only 2 times my goalie. That's ridicoluous.
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That goes in the right direction but it must be translated into action!
Each club should also have a modular system where individual influence can be exerted :)
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You keep money & concentrate on making more money = you have extremely high expectations
Plenty of data from last season in Polish leagues ;)

So, its not official (nothing in last diary) ?

Yes, it's true that with this change, users who have a large budget but don't invest it will be "penalized" – but that's logical.

why there is no information about that in the diary ? i miss something ?
Let's say a team win all its games but still have 100M€ cash in bank, fan mood/Expectations will be penalized ?

Cumulating cash (farmer team) is a problem for challenge, but its influence is not clear.

For example, a team spend all its money to stay competitive in higher league but loose all its games, in comparison a farming team win all its games with 100M€ in lower league : is it really interesting to stay competitive ? Because that's the only question that matters.

Otherwise, teams will continue to farm until they have enough money to set up an ultra-competitive team, then return to the lower leagues to farm, and so on....
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I think you're missing the topic of the conversation :)
It is about what components influence the expectations you get at the start of the season, not fan mood during season.
And the answer is mostly your budget.
Expectations are made at the start of the season based on a bunch of elements (budget, size of fanclub, level of players, last season placement).

Like mangol said there were many cases discussed in polish forums. I can give you my team as an example.
1. Budget: Mine is by far the biggest
2. Size of fanclub: Mine is most likely the lowest (how to check it? Check match expectations - those are based on fanclub size. In every match I play; I am the outsider).
3. Level of players: Mine are by far the weakest
4. Last season placement: 3rd place in lower division (the lowest possible)
Expectation for my team? Championship

You can conclude from this easily that amount of money has by far the most weight in the formula for calculating expectations.
Therefore this is the basis for the discussion - penalizing rich teams through giving them the highest expectations (which they will fail) so in the end lowering max possible fan mood.

And to add to the disscusion as a prime farmer team example:
I got 3,6 mln € total last season from sponsors and tickets. If it where reduced to 0 € it would make no difference for me. I'm pretty sure not a single "farmer" team will change their approach to their playing style because of this change. It will absolutely not incourage (if any then only discourage) from playing competitive.
Changes will need to addres WHY people play like this (because it's neccesary to achieve success) not that they play like this.
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Of course. I simply stopped investing in my first team to cover my "new additional losses" from lowered sponsors/tickets income. I was supposed to invest couple of millions to have a competitive team playing for top 3, but it's pointless now since I won't get it back from sponsors/tickets (since it's stuck on 0/7, 1/7).
Plus I started ignoring the league games and instead try to get far in the National Cup, so I get more from Friday tickets. Financially I won't lose a dime this season compared to previous season, but I will be LESS competitive instead of more.

I think you're missing the topic of the conversation :)
And the answer is mostly your budget.

Really ? Fan mood depend (mainly) of expectation ? Why nothing official about what is the main influence of expectation in an official diary about fan mood ?

And in the end, what's the topic of the conversation if it's not about farming/training and the economic non sense to challenge every weeks.
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Farming must be limited up to 3x13-3x14 players , High skilled player up to 18 must be very very rare and not affordable at all without sponsors with 1000M€. Pure Luck but very very expensive, That is the only way to keep the financial system in balance. Somewhere you must burn a lot of cash and if your risk propension is low you will never play in the premier league. That's the deal.

Fan mood depend (mainly) of expectation ? Why nothing official about what is the main influence of expectation in an official diary about fan mood ?

it's exactly 60% -> The proportion of this influence is 60 to 40 in favor of the influence of seasonal expectations (DD75)

I think he means why isn't it official news what influences expectations/ how the formula for calculating them works.
Obviously because they don't want anyone to be able to manipulate expectations easily.

I don't think you understand this game and I think that with your ideas you are trying to create a completely new game, that will never happen here.

Btw. farming teams don't give a fuck about 3x 14 players, they make money on 16-17yo players.

I think he means why isn't it official

Finally ^^ Thanks :-)

Obviously because they don't want anyone to be able to manipulate expectations easily.

It's a stupid move. If devs 's goal was "spend your money to challenge" it should be official. Im quite sure nobody want to spend all their money to manipulate expectations easily :-)