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Subject: [Idea] Merge of small countries/leagues
But that is what was pointed before.
We have to wait 3 seasons in order to the changes been applied, and then like another 3 seasons for new users to be competitive. Then, from now, we need AS MINIMUM 6 seasons (If magically 100 users appears in the first day of changes) to have some fun in the league.
6 seasons are 2 real years.
2 REAL YEARS...
We have to wait 3 seasons in order to the changes been applied, and then like another 3 seasons for new users to be competitive. Then, from now, we need AS MINIMUM 6 seasons (If magically 100 users appears in the first day of changes) to have some fun in the league.
6 seasons are 2 real years.
2 REAL YEARS...
It's cool bro. I get what you are saying that the game currently is heavily lopsided in favor of countries with large number of users and the points you suggested are just a minor way to mitigate those advantages that they have although it wouldn't really affect them in a major way.
Personally, for me it's more important to have games against real users more frequently. That should be the top priority when the Devs start anything which is related to small countries. And that's where merging comes in. The other changes can be put on hold but ultimately it's up to the DEVs. We can't blame them if they focus on things where they would get a big profit. After all, it's business.
Personally, for me it's more important to have games against real users more frequently. That should be the top priority when the Devs start anything which is related to small countries. And that's where merging comes in. The other changes can be put on hold but ultimately it's up to the DEVs. We can't blame them if they focus on things where they would get a big profit. After all, it's business.
@achmid,
is this true?? Did the DEVs shoot this idea that would be best for small countries??
That would be f***** redicoules!!!
is this true?? Did the DEVs shoot this idea that would be best for small countries??
That would be f***** redicoules!!!
First of all, i want to say that inactive leagues happen in all countries (big or not).
1st/2d division are the most active, but for larger nation the level gap to just access this divisions is much harder. Iinactivity and boring leagues is not a specific problem for small nations users.
The answer is international leagues, this solution have been point out in many topics by few users.
I didnt read any other solutions; removing bots will not help since the problem is mainly a lack of users in all countries.
One of my proposal was the ability to manage 1 to x teams that we want, in any countries...
And i m really surprise that this solution was not on the table because it will solve many many things :
1) More challenges a week? Devs spend a lot of time trying de design new competitions and calendar to give more challenges !! But a simpler solution already exist : want more challenge ? : multiple teams !
2) Too much bots? Its long and difficult to solved with less users : multiple teams !
3) Manage young clubs, trying different club progression strategies : multiple teams !
The only reason with we can't talk about multiple teams, is cheating, but it could be easily solved.
1st/2d division are the most active, but for larger nation the level gap to just access this divisions is much harder. Iinactivity and boring leagues is not a specific problem for small nations users.
The answer is international leagues, this solution have been point out in many topics by few users.
I didnt read any other solutions; removing bots will not help since the problem is mainly a lack of users in all countries.
One of my proposal was the ability to manage 1 to x teams that we want, in any countries...
And i m really surprise that this solution was not on the table because it will solve many many things :
1) More challenges a week? Devs spend a lot of time trying de design new competitions and calendar to give more challenges !! But a simpler solution already exist : want more challenge ? : multiple teams !
2) Too much bots? Its long and difficult to solved with less users : multiple teams !
3) Manage young clubs, trying different club progression strategies : multiple teams !
The only reason with we can't talk about multiple teams, is cheating, but it could be easily solved.
As you said, in most countries 1st and 2nd divison are the most active and real users. In the countries I pointed out before, they don't even complete 1 league of 2nd division. It is uncomparable. We dont have even 4 active users in the whole 2nd division...
Merging this countries is the best solution to retain the users don't leaving the game. I dont see other solution.
International league would give you the chance to play against real users, 2 or 3 matches per season. But in your national league? You will play against bots. Very very boring. Please take a look on my league and fixture. 5-0, 8-0, 11-0 my first 3 matchs. In the cup, we are already in Round of 16 and still playing against bots.
Merging this countries is the best solution to retain the users don't leaving the game. I dont see other solution.
International league would give you the chance to play against real users, 2 or 3 matches per season. But in your national league? You will play against bots. Very very boring. Please take a look on my league and fixture. 5-0, 8-0, 11-0 my first 3 matchs. In the cup, we are already in Round of 16 and still playing against bots.
@achmid,
is this true?? Did the DEVs shoot this idea that would be best for small countries??
That would be f***** redicoules!!!
It is 100% spot on. It has been shut down, because they do not care about what happens with small countries. They pass it off as if somehow after 15yrs, this will all be fixed by adding a 2nd league match per week, which we all know is rubbish.
is this true?? Did the DEVs shoot this idea that would be best for small countries??
That would be f***** redicoules!!!
It is 100% spot on. It has been shut down, because they do not care about what happens with small countries. They pass it off as if somehow after 15yrs, this will all be fixed by adding a 2nd league match per week, which we all know is rubbish.
Both juytt and ezlucky make excellent points.
Juytt is correct in that an International league would go a long way to fix the "it is extremely boring playing in a small country" as although it wouldn't fix the national league issue in small nations, it would give them something fun to do whilst they wait for the country to grow (if it ever does). It gives them one competition in the game where they get to play against actual humans. As present small countries have zero competitions where they get to play against humans of a similar strength.
Ezlucky is also correct. It doesn't fix the national scene, so more needs to be done here. This game will not suggest get loads more users just because you put a second league match in the week. And that is regardless of what country you play. It certainly won't help small nations as for many, it will just be adding 4 more bots in to the league, meaning you get another 8 matches against bots.
Whether they see it or not, they don't care to hear what the game is like from people actually in small nations. Many of those replying have been loyal and around for a long time, and are trying to help them grow the game, but it is falling on deaf ears, and that kind of attitude is what will see all the time and money they are putting in, wasted.
It is sad to see a promising game getting ruined, and going down a path which does not make the game as fun as it can be for as many as possible, but lets be honest, it has always been this way, so it is likely an ingrained attitude from their local society that sees this as OK, unlike what most of the world sees. And it is shown in the football leagues of Poland. In Australia, limits (financial) are placed on teams so that they are forced to show good management by picking up good buys for cheap money, which keeps all teams relatively similar in skill, but a good manager will always come out on top. In Poland it is all about who has the most money and it shows in the results and teams that dominate their local league
Juytt is correct in that an International league would go a long way to fix the "it is extremely boring playing in a small country" as although it wouldn't fix the national league issue in small nations, it would give them something fun to do whilst they wait for the country to grow (if it ever does). It gives them one competition in the game where they get to play against actual humans. As present small countries have zero competitions where they get to play against humans of a similar strength.
Ezlucky is also correct. It doesn't fix the national scene, so more needs to be done here. This game will not suggest get loads more users just because you put a second league match in the week. And that is regardless of what country you play. It certainly won't help small nations as for many, it will just be adding 4 more bots in to the league, meaning you get another 8 matches against bots.
Whether they see it or not, they don't care to hear what the game is like from people actually in small nations. Many of those replying have been loyal and around for a long time, and are trying to help them grow the game, but it is falling on deaf ears, and that kind of attitude is what will see all the time and money they are putting in, wasted.
It is sad to see a promising game getting ruined, and going down a path which does not make the game as fun as it can be for as many as possible, but lets be honest, it has always been this way, so it is likely an ingrained attitude from their local society that sees this as OK, unlike what most of the world sees. And it is shown in the football leagues of Poland. In Australia, limits (financial) are placed on teams so that they are forced to show good management by picking up good buys for cheap money, which keeps all teams relatively similar in skill, but a good manager will always come out on top. In Poland it is all about who has the most money and it shows in the results and teams that dominate their local league
Step 1: Add all countries to the game
Step 2: Merge all national leagues in the countries with less than X users into the regional leagues
Step 3: Set the rule for split-back to the national leagues
relying solely on advertising solving the problem of small countries is naive
Step 2: Merge all national leagues in the countries with less than X users into the regional leagues
Step 3: Set the rule for split-back to the national leagues
relying solely on advertising solving the problem of small countries is naive
BINGO. It is pretty simple. Certainly beats.
Step 1: Steal underwear
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Make profit
(For anyone who doesn't know where this is from, it is the underwear gnomes from South Park)
Step 1: Steal underwear
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Make profit
(For anyone who doesn't know where this is from, it is the underwear gnomes from South Park)
relying solely on advertising solving the problem of small countries is naive
I guess if they are gonna invest a lot in promotion, and target the countries with little users, they could fix the issue to a large degree.
That is, the issue of extremely small number of users.
But, that only solves the issue of numbers, not the issue of the user experience.
Let say their plans work, countries with 5 or so users grow to 50 or something.
First, that is not gonna happen sooner than 4 seasons, and current user are bored.
Second, the new users are quickly gonna soar to the first division and play against some old users and get trashed. They are gonna need 10-20 seasons to be competitive with the teams that they are gonna play against pretty much immediately. That is not fun.
Merging countries should be implemented before the promotion of the game.
But, if countries are gonna get merged, they should stay merged for some time regardless of the increase in user numbers.
Another thing that I suggested is introducing stronger bots (for every country).
For example, couple bots with 60-65 average mark, couple with 55-60, couple with 50-55, couple with 45-50, couple with 40-45, etc.
These bots would present a nice challenge for users on many levels. They would act like a buffer between old and new users.
I guess if they are gonna invest a lot in promotion, and target the countries with little users, they could fix the issue to a large degree.
That is, the issue of extremely small number of users.
But, that only solves the issue of numbers, not the issue of the user experience.
Let say their plans work, countries with 5 or so users grow to 50 or something.
First, that is not gonna happen sooner than 4 seasons, and current user are bored.
Second, the new users are quickly gonna soar to the first division and play against some old users and get trashed. They are gonna need 10-20 seasons to be competitive with the teams that they are gonna play against pretty much immediately. That is not fun.
Merging countries should be implemented before the promotion of the game.
But, if countries are gonna get merged, they should stay merged for some time regardless of the increase in user numbers.
Another thing that I suggested is introducing stronger bots (for every country).
For example, couple bots with 60-65 average mark, couple with 55-60, couple with 50-55, couple with 45-50, couple with 40-45, etc.
These bots would present a nice challenge for users on many levels. They would act like a buffer between old and new users.
@Raul
I know you aren't a fan of this option, but look at the small nation users coming out an saying this needs to occur.
It would not only help fix the current sponsorship issue, but it would give people more to play for, and people will get to play against other humans.
This is more important than ever to do, with the new changes coming, because you don't want people playing more matches against bots/inactives, and having to wait multiple real years before there is any chance of more users joining, and sticking around.
This solves a lot of issues if done right (people retain their nation, and their youth pulls for their nation, but their league is a combined league).
As I said before, whether this is done by continent, by language, or just all being in one large draw, it does not matter, but for the sake of the 60% countries with less than 2 full divisions worth of teams, implement it. If it doesn't work, it won't be hard to separate people back in to their nations, as most will just end up back in their 1st division where they started.
I know you aren't a fan of this option, but look at the small nation users coming out an saying this needs to occur.
It would not only help fix the current sponsorship issue, but it would give people more to play for, and people will get to play against other humans.
This is more important than ever to do, with the new changes coming, because you don't want people playing more matches against bots/inactives, and having to wait multiple real years before there is any chance of more users joining, and sticking around.
This solves a lot of issues if done right (people retain their nation, and their youth pulls for their nation, but their league is a combined league).
As I said before, whether this is done by continent, by language, or just all being in one large draw, it does not matter, but for the sake of the 60% countries with less than 2 full divisions worth of teams, implement it. If it doesn't work, it won't be hard to separate people back in to their nations, as most will just end up back in their 1st division where they started.
Enlargement of divisions and small countries (containing a few users): We agree that for small countries, enlarging leagues is not as attractive as for larger countries. But along with the changes, we plan to conduct intensive marketing activities that are also more focused on the markets which currently have the smallest amount of users. Thus, the problem should be reduced when we are recruiting new players. However, if this shall not happen - we will consider various ideas to solve this problem (such as ideas of merging countries into large groups).
But as we said - it's an option, but first we want to try to move in normal way, with promotion.
We are talking about moment of game re-launch - major changes will be introduced as one package (new UX, design, training reform, more games, etc.) - we simply belive, that in first season it will be exciting for all of us, no matter of country. We will have really good product (hope so). In the same time we will invest money into promotion, focused on small contries. If in one season we will not achive our goal and increase small countries population - then as we mentioned in dev diary - we can start thinking about merging countries.
But as we said - it's an option, but first we want to try to move in normal way, with promotion.
We are talking about moment of game re-launch - major changes will be introduced as one package (new UX, design, training reform, more games, etc.) - we simply belive, that in first season it will be exciting for all of us, no matter of country. We will have really good product (hope so). In the same time we will invest money into promotion, focused on small contries. If in one season we will not achive our goal and increase small countries population - then as we mentioned in dev diary - we can start thinking about merging countries.
But I have already pointed out how long teams will need to wait before any current team sees any benefit of this.
This season has 13 weeks left.
Next season is 16 weeks
The season after is 16 weeks.
Changes implemented - advertising day 1 - 50 people join new country day 2 (unrealistic but I'm showing best case scenario)
It took me 10 seasons to get a point against our number 1 team. That is not that we are competitive, but that I got lucky after that long.
So these new teams lets say take 10 seasons at 13 weeks a season, to be able to even make the top teams think about their match
13+16+16+130 = 175 weeks This is 3y4m (or 40 months) before the top teams even need to consider that the new teams will be able to cause them any trouble.
And this was best case scenario as we won't have a bunch of users joining day 1 of advertising with the new changes. So best case, you want people to stick around 3 yrs playing bots and uncompetitive matches, as a minimum, before you ever decide that something may need changing. That is not only not acceptable, but a terrible business plan.
(edited)
This season has 13 weeks left.
Next season is 16 weeks
The season after is 16 weeks.
Changes implemented - advertising day 1 - 50 people join new country day 2 (unrealistic but I'm showing best case scenario)
It took me 10 seasons to get a point against our number 1 team. That is not that we are competitive, but that I got lucky after that long.
So these new teams lets say take 10 seasons at 13 weeks a season, to be able to even make the top teams think about their match
13+16+16+130 = 175 weeks This is 3y4m (or 40 months) before the top teams even need to consider that the new teams will be able to cause them any trouble.
And this was best case scenario as we won't have a bunch of users joining day 1 of advertising with the new changes. So best case, you want people to stick around 3 yrs playing bots and uncompetitive matches, as a minimum, before you ever decide that something may need changing. That is not only not acceptable, but a terrible business plan.
(edited)