Subject: [GD] Injuries

I didn’t misunderstood, Borkos don’t care about dealing with randoms, it’s a farm team.
And for someone who miss interest in competing (should be the essence of a game) I just notice that he's still interested in mining gold. I find it hypocritical, yes, even if farming it's part of the logic of the game, it doesn’t mean random events are manageable for those teams that play the game and facing really bad lucks. Point.
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I didn’t misunderstood, Borkos don’t care about dealing with randoms, it’s a farm team.

and what does it have to do with our discussion? we are talking on theoretical level and even on practical level I think I have much bigger experience than you, since I actually played at the highest level and you never did

And for someone who miss interest in competing (should be the essence of a game) I just notice that he's still interested in mining gold

why are you even interested in what I'm interested in? I don't care about "mining gold", I just train players because that is still the only fun element for me at club level.
if I cared about "mining gold" I would make transfers all the time and I don't care about doing so, I only train them.

I have three players that I trained since 17yo and they are already 24/25 year old so I train them for 7-8 seasons. that's not how you make money, I will barely have any profit "seasonly".

and yes, the essence of the game should be competition, but it's not my fault that the competitive side of this game is fucked up and boring for me since many years.

and again - what does it have to do with our conversation?

it doesn’t mean random events are manageable for those teams that play the game and facing really bad lucks

Again, they ARE manageable, the ability to manage them is based on how the team is prepared to face bad luck / how much bad luck will break the team.

I lost a Champions Cup final after my first team striker got injured in a National team friendly. Did I lose because of bad luck? In part yes, in part I lost because my reserve striker was much worse and I didn't have any money left at that point to invest in a top striker for the final. So I wasn't 100% prepared.

It's easy to buy 11 or 13 good players and many people do so, but then they don't have resources for good bench and "crisis transfers". They can do that but they shouldn't be surprised that they can't manage and their team gets much weaker when they get 2 injuries.

I’m sorry but borkos isn’t being hypocritical. There are more reasons to farm then because you can’t deal with randomness and a lot of it stems from other areas of the game that have been terrible or are completely broken. I stand by my earlier statement, injuries are always going to be random based off probabilities and some will always be luckier than others regardless of whatever probability chance you assign to it. So because of that you either deal with it and take a risk and well if it works great if it doesn’t well that’s the risk you took. Alternatively you do something about it and give yourself more depth. It really is that simple.

not really, I'm mining because since many years I simply don't care to play competitively anymore so I just train.

Again, they ARE manageable, the ability to manage them is based on how the team is prepared to face bad luck / how much bad luck will break the team.

Your words.

If you prefer « just train players » instead of « mining gold » it’s ok for me. But its just words, and again, i find hypocritical to give a lesson to those competitive teams with not enough millions in reserve to manage randoms events, when :
1) your transfer asset is +200 millions (mining gold in some ways :-o)
2) you don’t need to spend any money for top subs because…
3) you dint play competitively anymore.

and yes, the essence of the game should be competition, but it's not my fault that the competitive side of this game is fucked up and boring for me since many years.

If theoretically we can manage random events with millions, we are also agree on this conclusion. It doesn’t change my view about unmanageable randoms events for “normal” team's and I’m quite sure that’s the reason why many teams prefer farming than playing any competition :-p
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I think that you don't really understand what hypocritical and theoretical mean

Besides, since you never played at top level - according to your logic you should never talk about managing teams with randomness on top level - because you know nothing about it in practice (btw. you would label a person that does so a "hypocrite")

And again, I have no idea what my transfer balance etc. have to do with what I'm writing about managing crisis situations (which I know from my experience and explained in theory, which you failed to undermine in any way, you just started calling me names and responding to 1/5 of what I wrote)

Anyway, this discussion seems kinda dull since your last posts, so I don't care to continue it further, have a good day

Just likes juniors, injuries or any randoms I know your arguments, it’s the same as Rikano.
I am agree with both you, it’s manageable in long term and fair in the average.

But what you don’t want to heard, randoms factors are the base of those systems (juniors, injuries... ) so in short to middle terms the game is unfair (due to rand distribution) and practically unmanageable, you can’t do anything and you take your loss in case of cumulative bad lucks. As Borkos said : just make money before trying to play competitive, otherwise don’t complain, it’s unmanageable without luck. In other words, randoms events are manageable only with millions in reserve.
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Besides, since you never played at top level - according to your logic you should never talk about managing teams with randomness on top level - because you know nothing about it in practice (btw. you would label a person that does so a "hypocrite") inally good arguments, have a good day too ;-)

What a final argument :-) Have a nice day too ;-)

Ok we have seen the arguments on both sides now. You say random factors aren't manageable, I and others say, they are with depth of squad.
What exactly is your solution to the problem? I mean, you're pretending like randomness is only a problem in sokker, but as others have said, for injuries it's in every other game and RL; and it's a lot less manageable (because actually random, while in sokker it depends on tactics, skilldistributions, actual fouls in the game, it depends on your pitch etc). So what have other games done that sokker hasn't? Having a staff that makes you heal faster?

Oh and a hard no to the pay2win option of just healing your injured player as plususer from my side. It's clear that not having pay2win does limit the resources of sokker, but having a truly fair game is just to valuable to be compromised.
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First things first : I never said random events are unmanageable without money lost or “depth of squads” (which is the same, in sokker).

Secondary, Random, the word is important. It’s because it’s depends on luck not your ability to manage anything. It’s not true that most of games depends mainly on luck. Certainly Lottery games off course…

Any solutions ? Many. But it doesn’t matter at this point. Devs trying to rectify “problems” artificially, trying to add things upon the same base: inevitably it will result more or less to the same problems.

But for the example : yes, medical staff is a typical way to manage injuries, not necessarily a pay2win options as you said.

Or a player who don’t play games or much minutes during a week, should not receive a severe injuries (which is not the case!)

Or paying insurance for injuries Individually or not.

Or giving more or less training intensity for each players to prevent injuries…

Or… any fucking feature that is a choice, not a fucking random event you can’t control without luck except keeping millions in bank to manage bad luck.

What sports management/simulation games that are primarily based on player vs player don’t involve large amounts of luck and don’t invovle players manually controlling the game? Never heard of any but not saying they don’t exist I’m just not aware of any. At the same rate if there are name one in which there’s an element of skill to winning rather than simply who started first or had the best players because without random aspects any game would be predictable and incredibly boring.

We can discuss whether injury rates are too high, I think that’s a valid discussion but trying to claim that you have no control is an over exaggeration. There are many things you can do to minimise/reduce your chance but you don’t seem willing to accept that there are.

As for the medical centre idea, pretty sure that’s been floated by the devs anyway for somewhere down the track so you’ll probably get something to help there.

You’re complaining about costs of having squad depth and then talk about all these other ideas of cost associated things which if they did exist would likely cost similar to just having squad depth anyway unless you’re expecting them to be basically free.

That's only thing we complain here rate and length of injuries is too high! Sokker is probably only game you can beat strongest opponents with tactics but with few injuries and red cards in one game you lose finals...
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What sports management/simulation games that are primarily based on player vs player don’t involve large amounts of luck

I've played a lot of soccer games which depend mainly on gamer's skills; so I guess we don't have the same references.

trying to claim that you have no control is an over exaggeration. There are many things you can do to minimise/reduce your chance but you don’t seem willing to accept that there are.

Officially there is nothing about injuries factors and we can't found any data to confirm anything about those factors. Everything is possible, I never said it's may only depend on luck. But certainly, mainly depend on random, for the reason i was explaining previously.

You’re complaining about costs of having squad depth and then talk about all these other ideas of cost associated things which if they did exist would likely cost similar to just having squad depth anyway unless you’re expecting them to be basically free.

I never said it should have similar cost of having squad depth, or even "free". And i spread you other ideas, some with no cost but constraint, some with flexible costs...
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Well that depends. I said discuss not whinge/complain with a post about I got x injury every few days. Big difference. That stuff gets no one anywhere.

Well I posting facts having 5 6 injuries at same time was a fact ... If you do not like it it's your problem...

yes, That is exctly the point.

It is good to have injuries, lets say having 1 or max 2 player unavailable for the next match is ok, it a situation that you have to manage, including change your strategy.
But when you have 5 players injuried at the same time, there is no point on thinking what to do, you just make any first 11 and let god decide.

About the question above on hat is the perfect number of frequency, likehood.... well it is reduce thos 5-6 injuries at the same time that doesnt happen to everybody, but the distribution is too spread.


Altough I have to said in my experience, lately I see less injuries, more moderated injuries and in the NT i have seen max 10 days. Dont know if this is a coincidence

You are lucky:)