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Subject: Maximum length of injury
They never will. Corner tactics existed back when I was here in 2010.
I will never understand the logic behind it, when everyone just works around it. It's terrible for maintaining interest in new non-PLUS users...
Hell, it was a reason I quit way back then. One game a week and a friendly no one actually played *snore*
I will never understand the logic behind it, when everyone just works around it. It's terrible for maintaining interest in new non-PLUS users...
Hell, it was a reason I quit way back then. One game a week and a friendly no one actually played *snore*
I understand the point you're making, yet, comparing everything in Sokker to real-life situations might not always match up perfectly. In actual soccer, teams don't usually play friendly matches throughout an entire season. In the past, friendlies were often a chance to test out different tactics, before arcade matches were a thing.
But when it comes to Sokker, friendly matches don't carry the same weight. They're mainly there for training your players (and a bit of extra cash). The tricky part is how the game ties together playing time and training.
In an ideal situation, friendly matches in Sokker could have a lower chance of causing injuries, similar to how real-life friendlies tend to have less intensity. Alternatively, the game could unlink playing time and training benefits.
As for corner tactics, I agree – they can be a bit of a downside. They don't really align with the fair play spirit. However, sometimes, when you're trying to get the most out of your managerial skills and make the game work for you, using these tactics becomes a necessary compromise. It's like finding a balance between playing the game as intended and navigating its quirks.
But when it comes to Sokker, friendly matches don't carry the same weight. They're mainly there for training your players (and a bit of extra cash). The tricky part is how the game ties together playing time and training.
In an ideal situation, friendly matches in Sokker could have a lower chance of causing injuries, similar to how real-life friendlies tend to have less intensity. Alternatively, the game could unlink playing time and training benefits.
As for corner tactics, I agree – they can be a bit of a downside. They don't really align with the fair play spirit. However, sometimes, when you're trying to get the most out of your managerial skills and make the game work for you, using these tactics becomes a necessary compromise. It's like finding a balance between playing the game as intended and navigating its quirks.
This is a great post.
My overarching point on friendlies is simple though, although not directly on the 'injury length' discussion.
If we want to grow the game, removing all but slight injuries from friendlies is the way.
There are other, more nuanced solutions, like penalizing teams who use corner tactics with lower gate revenue...but that would involve a lot more back end coding that I doubt there's time or appetite for.
I will also add, somewhat related: full credit to the staff for implementing five subs as quickly as they did. Frankly, I love it to help maximize training.
Edit: phone typos :)
(edited)
My overarching point on friendlies is simple though, although not directly on the 'injury length' discussion.
If we want to grow the game, removing all but slight injuries from friendlies is the way.
There are other, more nuanced solutions, like penalizing teams who use corner tactics with lower gate revenue...but that would involve a lot more back end coding that I doubt there's time or appetite for.
I will also add, somewhat related: full credit to the staff for implementing five subs as quickly as they did. Frankly, I love it to help maximize training.
Edit: phone typos :)
(edited)
As for corner tactics, I agree – they can be a bit of a downside. They don't really align with the fair play spirit. However, sometimes, when you're trying to get the most out of your managerial skills and make the game work for you, using these tactics becomes a necessary compromise. It's like finding a balance between playing the game as intended and navigating its quirks.
I think that is the problem, your arguments were excellents, nothing to say, but when we found sense to corner tactics, something is wrong with Sokker. It's not about competitive spirit or the game, something exists in Sokker's dynamics that leads users to do that disgusting thing.
The staff has done everything they could to defend the long periods of injuries, an act of arrogance and ignorance XD
I think that is the problem, your arguments were excellents, nothing to say, but when we found sense to corner tactics, something is wrong with Sokker. It's not about competitive spirit or the game, something exists in Sokker's dynamics that leads users to do that disgusting thing.
The staff has done everything they could to defend the long periods of injuries, an act of arrogance and ignorance XD
The thing is that friendly games are useless in this game except for the fact that they give training so they are needed.
people don't care for them and for the results, if not for training, I wouldn't even play friendly games.
so it doesn't really matter if people use corner tactics or not - almost nobody watches these games or even looks at the result. and if someone wants to play friendlies "normally" - no problem, he can do that. so what's the problem here? looking at other people's friendlies makes people angry/sad or what?
people don't care for them and for the results, if not for training, I wouldn't even play friendly games.
so it doesn't really matter if people use corner tactics or not - almost nobody watches these games or even looks at the result. and if someone wants to play friendlies "normally" - no problem, he can do that. so what's the problem here? looking at other people's friendlies makes people angry/sad or what?
Youth matches are even worse.
They are not needed in order for the players to make their progress. The competition is non-existent. The matches itself are an abomination to look at and the revenue is...well,... a joke.
They are not needed in order for the players to make their progress. The competition is non-existent. The matches itself are an abomination to look at and the revenue is...well,... a joke.
The long established players largely don't care, but that's not growing the game's population.
Yeah, I like the idea of youth matches a lot, but the form they created made me completely ignore it.
Problem is, it's kind of hard to implement it in current sokker to make it interesting. As you say - it has basically ZERO impact on the team.
In comparison, there was a game FootballStrategy - it had a youth school same like here, but youths came out mostly 15-17yo and every team had a Youth team [u19 then changed to u21] - which worked same way as main team, so you basically had another team that was limited to max u19/u21 players, had own tactics, training, champions etc.
I think THAT would be pretty cool, making SK youths come out as 15-17 and then keeping them in a u19 team, training. But it would require A LOT of thinking, decision making and changes, starting from YS, up to senior training to make it work properly.
@islander
Well possibly, but I think new users have no idea that others play with corner tactics + there are many, many much more problematic things that drive potential new users away.
Problem is, it's kind of hard to implement it in current sokker to make it interesting. As you say - it has basically ZERO impact on the team.
In comparison, there was a game FootballStrategy - it had a youth school same like here, but youths came out mostly 15-17yo and every team had a Youth team [u19 then changed to u21] - which worked same way as main team, so you basically had another team that was limited to max u19/u21 players, had own tactics, training, champions etc.
I think THAT would be pretty cool, making SK youths come out as 15-17 and then keeping them in a u19 team, training. But it would require A LOT of thinking, decision making and changes, starting from YS, up to senior training to make it work properly.
@islander
Well possibly, but I think new users have no idea that others play with corner tactics + there are many, many much more problematic things that drive potential new users away.
The potential of the game is extremely high, but the server is reaching it's limits.
So, that said, the best way is to alter things in stead of adding things.
As for the youth matches, your idea is on par with my own. I've said it different times before, that we need a separate U21 team, in stead of the youth squad, and that, when they turn 22, they should join the A-squad.
U21 players are basically useless within the A-team if you're not playing in bottom leagues or very small countries.
It makes NT - U21 teams pools easier to split.
2 separate servers are recommended for this though, so it won't be happening (soon)
But it certainly has it's potential.
So, that said, the best way is to alter things in stead of adding things.
As for the youth matches, your idea is on par with my own. I've said it different times before, that we need a separate U21 team, in stead of the youth squad, and that, when they turn 22, they should join the A-squad.
U21 players are basically useless within the A-team if you're not playing in bottom leagues or very small countries.
It makes NT - U21 teams pools easier to split.
2 separate servers are recommended for this though, so it won't be happening (soon)
But it certainly has it's potential.
The major flaw of youth and u21 games is that ME is acting super bad and that will not be fixed anytime soon..
Server quality & ME in u21 games are the least of problems in the idea of creating u21 teams
1. u19 or u21? extremely important question
2. would it be own youth school players only or could you buy players for u19/u21 team?
3. training - new slots (10?) or would they take existing 10 slots?
4. what kind of training - you see all skills and then choose training for everyone? all train the same or is there advanced training for some and rest get position/general training?
5. age of coming out - it would have to be moved, so players coming into ys would have to be much younger
6. let's imagine they come out as 15yo into u19 team - what then? what level of skills they have? can you train them or are they trained automatically? how many can you improve? do they have to play? are they getting injured? can you move them to senior team any time you want or are they moved automatically after reaching 19/20 years?
etc.
there are of course many upsides if made correctly, but if you make wrong decisions, these are possible outcomes:
a. extremely strong youths that were trained perfectly since 15yo
b. too weak end product youths
c. many strong youths - but 90% are useless (because they weren't trained due to lack of slots) so the general level of players goes down strongly (bad for weak teams)
d. strong/rich teams being able to train up to 20 players at same time [10 u19 10 over 19]
and so on...
(edited)
1. u19 or u21? extremely important question
2. would it be own youth school players only or could you buy players for u19/u21 team?
3. training - new slots (10?) or would they take existing 10 slots?
4. what kind of training - you see all skills and then choose training for everyone? all train the same or is there advanced training for some and rest get position/general training?
5. age of coming out - it would have to be moved, so players coming into ys would have to be much younger
6. let's imagine they come out as 15yo into u19 team - what then? what level of skills they have? can you train them or are they trained automatically? how many can you improve? do they have to play? are they getting injured? can you move them to senior team any time you want or are they moved automatically after reaching 19/20 years?
etc.
there are of course many upsides if made correctly, but if you make wrong decisions, these are possible outcomes:
a. extremely strong youths that were trained perfectly since 15yo
b. too weak end product youths
c. many strong youths - but 90% are useless (because they weren't trained due to lack of slots) so the general level of players goes down strongly (bad for weak teams)
d. strong/rich teams being able to train up to 20 players at same time [10 u19 10 over 19]
and so on...
(edited)
What if...
The current training system works for U21 players (yes, make U21 in stead of U19 - the format exists in it's own NT group already) and they can train superior (100% advanced) on 1 skill and 20% on other skills, where 11 spots (because of 11 players on the pitch) can be used for optimal training, with the important part that U21 players training needs to ''form'' their outcome in general.
Then +21 players ALL get 40% GT, no more advanced training. So the base in their outcome is formed at U21, then they build up automatically and in general over all skills.
This means that if you train a U21 player to be like
Jannick Dupain, age: 19, height: 176 cm
value: 345 750 €, wage: 2 425 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
form [18](+1) superdivine, tactical discipline [12] outstanding
stamina [4] weak, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [12] outstanding, defender [8] solid
technique [7](+1) good, playmaker [8] solid
passing [9] very good, striker [8] solid
Then he will be trained more like a midfielder after his U21 period.
But if you train him like
Ronaldo Filardo, age: 19, height: 184 cm
value: 372 000 €, wage: 3 275 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: Venezuela
form [16](-1) unearthly, tactical discipline [11](+1) formidable
stamina [7] good, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [14] brilliant, defender [6] adequate
technique [7] good, playmaker [4] weak
passing [3] poor, striker [8] solid
Then he will be trained more as a striker. but in the same time grows his other skills up as well.
The big point in this format is that U21 players are needed to be trained fundamentally and the +21 players will be train generally.
I think this can be made with minimum adjustments and a minimum of server burdening.
The current training system works for U21 players (yes, make U21 in stead of U19 - the format exists in it's own NT group already) and they can train superior (100% advanced) on 1 skill and 20% on other skills, where 11 spots (because of 11 players on the pitch) can be used for optimal training, with the important part that U21 players training needs to ''form'' their outcome in general.
Then +21 players ALL get 40% GT, no more advanced training. So the base in their outcome is formed at U21, then they build up automatically and in general over all skills.
This means that if you train a U21 player to be like
Jannick Dupain, age: 19, height: 176 cm
value: 345 750 €, wage: 2 425 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: België
form [18](+1) superdivine, tactical discipline [12] outstanding
stamina [4] weak, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [12] outstanding, defender [8] solid
technique [7](+1) good, playmaker [8] solid
passing [9] very good, striker [8] solid
Then he will be trained more like a midfielder after his U21 period.
But if you train him like
Ronaldo Filardo, age: 19, height: 184 cm
value: 372 000 €, wage: 3 275 €
club: Racing Roeland, country: Venezuela
form [16](-1) unearthly, tactical discipline [11](+1) formidable
stamina [7] good, keeper [1] hopeless
pace [14] brilliant, defender [6] adequate
technique [7] good, playmaker [4] weak
passing [3] poor, striker [8] solid
Then he will be trained more as a striker. but in the same time grows his other skills up as well.
The big point in this format is that U21 players are needed to be trained fundamentally and the +21 players will be train generally.
I think this can be made with minimum adjustments and a minimum of server burdening.
I would prefer U21 teams (excluding players in junior schools) with their own competitions over the actual junior league system. But this would require increasing the number of training places which would have hardly predictable impact on the gameplay.
Currently, I am not really motivated to train young players for 8 seasons long to reach the level of A team. It just takes too long and they are pretty much useless until then with the exception of money-making and participation in U21 national teams.
Currently, I am not really motivated to train young players for 8 seasons long to reach the level of A team. It just takes too long and they are pretty much useless until then with the exception of money-making and participation in U21 national teams.
I hope they decrease length of injrs. For example today I lost my best mid for 23 days, But in new league system he miss 6-7 matches. When I played sk 10y back it was just 3 matches. I Lost players every week in average 14 days. It´s horrible for newcomers.