Subject: [info] Training issue - solutions

+1

Training is a shame, great! slow down the training, but, as a returning player, its almost impossible with your changes, to close the gap with 2010 teams, and fairly impossible to reach a similar level to europeans teams from 2006

"Training is a shame, great! slow down the training, but, as a returning player, its almost impossible with your changes, to close the gap with 2010 teams, and fairly impossible to reach a similar level to europeans teams from 2006"

Yeah, I honestly can understand why this user base is so low, still. This is a common problem in another game I play (hockeyarena). I've been in that game for 15 years on and off, but when I would go afk for months at a time i would still log in a couple times a week just to keep the team active. Since I knew if I lost my original team it would be impossible to catch up.

I don't understand, it is very easy to catch up. New system is bad for top teams and now it is much easier for lower teams to catch up.
I got a friend who is playing since 2018, he didn't play for big results yet, but for training.
Now he has 100M+ and soon will be able to build killer team.
If you can't keep the money flowing, something is wrong with your strategy, with those prices right now is the best ever time for newbies to build their team quickly.

You realize that's like 5 years, right?

That's not quick.

Well...he catched up in 5 years where others have been building for 18 years, so yeah...it's quick.
You cannot easily expect a new team to catch up in a few seasons, can you?

Perhaps not. I also cannot easily expect new players to stick around being uncompetitive for five years, too. Right?

If growth is an issue in this game - and I haven't been here long enough to say yes or not - you have to ask yourself what the options are to keep new players interested in continuing to log in, since, at least in America, that seems to be a problem. What motivation/motivators are there for newer players?
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what you suggest? for new teams to catch up in 2-3 seasons to build a team to compete in Champions cup?
I am not sure if there is solution, this manager game works not like this.
I see option to make for new users much more interesting game via international tournaments (let's say New users up to 1 years group and etc), there is many options how to do it, but we have only Champions Cup tournament, which format is old as hell.

Well, there are lots of managers, who started in 2020, who can present a decent competitive team with 60+ rating.
70+ or CC league level just needs lots more effort than this. And that is perfectly fine imo.

Growth isn't really an issue, but the starting teams need more support and better starting players / coaches so the gap isn't enormous in the beginning. But it needs to be big enough to be challenging. You need to see this game not as a sprint but a marathon.

But sokker has a bigger problem in the amount of users per country / globally.
Since in America, with exception of Brazil and Argentina, most countries have too little real managers so the level gap between starters and bots vs all other managers is too big. It's a slow paced game and you need lots of patience to improve your team.
At the start of the game and the first 5 years after, the gap was much smaller, because the best teams were not as strong as the best teams from today but also, sokker had 5x more managers! So each division was challenging in their own way.
But if your country is only 3 divisions big, then the progression of your team is much more limited. And also, the lowest division is in strength way worse than the higher divisions, so there's too little perspective to have the patience to grow enough for this perspective to get bigger.

I don't have easy answers, but I'll say that it's not so much that a new team should be able to compete with the very best teams in a year or two. Although starting with something like a hard cap on money is a possibility.

It's more about what keeps players engaged and playing. I think your idea of new player tournaments - or just lower skill level tourneys in general (since not every team that's not very good is new) - is a great idea.
I also think the idea of merging smaller countries is a good one. I mean we could get rid of many bot teams and close a few leagues down, but then you still have the problem of too stiff competition from A to B, or B to C leagues, so to speak.

New team owners need reasons to log in. Tonight I am having the match of my season against a superior team thats now bot - and I'm stuck with 3 starters out. If I get beat tonight, I have to seriously consider just throwing the rest of the season and intentionally not promoting to a USA A league which will absolutely destroy me. Honestly, even if I win tonight, I should probably do it. Just not sure I actually 'could' with remaining games.

but this idea of trying to throw games just to not get dismantled all next year kinda stinks. I know there's more money in A. What's the point when I'll have less motivation to log in? How many players are like this?

The other thing I think would be good is having a team of volunteers help new players start. norbert1987 reached out to me like on day 1, for example. I didn't need quite as much help as the typical user but the guy answered all my questions the first week back as I was getting started.

sorry if this is a bit rambling,

Hello Raul. I have been playing sokker for almost 8 years and during this time I always had my youth school running. Unfortunately, since the modifications to the training were made, I had to close it. I find it almost impossible to have young players, train them and also be competitive in the country's first division. In other words, basically youth schools are only feasible in less competitive divisions. Has anyone else raised this concern? Or have the devs raised it?

Juniors schools profitability is totally independent from the rest of the game. You invest x money every week and you get x' money from the juniors you get from it. No other factors influence its profitability. You just need to make sure that x' >= x
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Well you can't really make sure of it, you can make 5 times x, but you can as well make 0.5 times x

I did the math on my team and I was waaaaay in the minus for a long long time, at the same time there were teams that made around 20-30m euro profit during couple of months

That's a bid the sad part about ys, you don't really have any impact on it

Youth academy is not only about money but also about make decent NT players so I do not mind if it's not profitable but it needs to give us enough trained even if coast is high...
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You are making financial changes to level the game. Have you ever thought that new players, fresh out of youth school, can only be trained in the lower divisions? Generally, the lower division teams are new players or not very interested in the game or etc. It is almost impossible for a first division team to train young people and be competitive. That is precisely where the most active users are, more involved in the game and we do not have the option. Do you know that the Chilean NT has only one striker with divine pace, divine technique and divine striker? Not even superdivine...
I dont have youth team, because I cant train my own players.
Perhaps one idea is that players up to 20 years of age have greater training efficiency in friendly matches.

Well, it's true that reducing the season length made that during about 12 seasons older players will be better than younger ones will ever be, since they had more weeks to train during their carreer. That could make Juniors be less valuable during these 12 seasons

But it's a temporary effect, and 4 of that seasons (if I counted them well) are already gone. Once old players are born in the new system, the relation between old players and juniors will come back to the usual balance