Subject: [info] Training issue - solutions

it was explained with the reform - our logic is, that right column skills are based on possitions. To laern how to be a good defender, you need to play as defender.
In other words you need to get real experience on that possition to develop skills dedicated to that role on field.

We decided to left some limitations for now, if it will be a serious problem long term, maybe we will decide to make it more flexible

I mostly agree with the limitations of the right column to position. Scoring for att and Keeper skill for GK is logical, even that you need to play as defender to learn how to defend. However I think Passing and Playmaker should be switched.

Passing is a skill for midfielders. Playmaking constitutes understanding your position, whichever that is on the field, reading the game, placing yourself on the field in attacks and defensively, .... In short, Playmaking is knowing how to play football, and is implemented as such in the ME as well. It just does not make sense to me that now Passing is seen as a general skill and PM as MID skill.

I have seen many people making this very same point many times as well. This is not a point about not wanting restrictions, but challenging what currently is considered positional skill and general skill for MIDs. I would gladly swap the restriction for PM with passing to keep the balance.

Yes, pm is way more important for a def than passing is.

as I sad, in case of real problems we can skip that limitations in the future, but for now we want to keep it at least for few season to see how it work. :)

Yes that's the funniest approach let's see the existing users how struggle for few seasons man few seasons is a year almost ...

Avoiding my questions does not mean they are not valid NT part is important who will train those players if it's not profitable. You will make strong nations more stronger...

2022-10-23 21:02:05
RACK para Raul
Why are older players still punished with skill drops?
that should slow down too
4 players dropped today

as I sad, in case of real problems we can skip that limitations in the future, but for now we want to keep it at least for few season to see how it work. :)

Exhausting the user unnecessarily, there is already enough information in the forum to understand what has been added and what has been subtracted from the game... buuuuut...

It is wider problem, there is no retirement in the game, so without it slowing down skills drop will make players to strong in old age - with shorter season drops will be relatively slower, only 13 weeks per season for drops, instead of 16.

But in the end we agree - players should keep skills longer than now, but it can be done only with retirement system.

It is not about skipping limitations, but that the logic is off. You have the same amount of limitations by only allowing Passing for MIDs than you have now.
Current situation just seems only based on column position and not on the skills itself.

and for the coachs what are you considering for the age? this could be a problem if we have to change them because they are too old?

it is just different logic than it was, it subjective.
Previously there was a limit for passing, now its is for defending, based on fact, than right column is dedicated for possitions.
Now rule is more simple, than it was - formation skills are trained when player is playing on particular formation.

We decided that passing is a universal skill and should be opened.

retirements finaly should be applied same for players as coaches, and for sure it will happen someday.
For sure it will be announced with some time to prepare.

Imagine the prices for young coaches.
Or imagine when u fish a coach and u get only dinosaurs 85+ yo xD

Anyway, i believe u will fix it.

You speak about logic, but I can tell you do not understand the ME logic.
If you would play the game on a higher level, you would understand that the PM skill in fact is a very important general skill.
You adjust the game based on irl logic but with a match engine that acts on a different logic. It saddens me to see that there is too little game understanding under the devs and that many opinions and solutions are negated, simply because you have other believs. It's not a matter of being right or wrong, but a matter for the benefit of the game. I like it for features to have a taste of real life simulation, but in the end it's still a game and some points needs to be enjoyable, over being realistic.
Irl defenders tend to grow more complete and learn how to play as a midfielder, because, when you play as a defender you see the entire match and tactics before your eyes. So you learn how to play as a midfielder by playing matches as a defender, watching midfielders play.
Stamina is also a physical skill, but on sokker it's only a half skill which grows 3x faster than any other skill. So the logic you make about real life and pace makes no sence at all.
Also...a player who starts with tragic pace irl cannot and will never grow to be as fast as Mbappe.

So I would be happy to see you to at least think some things over from the opinion of a game maker, rather than a realistic person.

A good balance between game and real life simulator is necessary for the game to be able to grow. But the logic in that balance must be good. Now, that is the game's biggest problem.

Best of luck with the upcoming work.

...a player who starts with tragic pace irl cannot and will never grow to be as fast as Mbappe

you speak about this kind of juniors? xD

You are right generaly, PM is important for def, same as defending for MID, we are aware of that.
But we need to make our decisions, about training reform it was simple - new system is more flexible than it was before = upgrade, limits for training will stay as they where, but we will apply different logic here to have clear rule = passing was blocked for MID, now other skill is, but its 1:1.

So overall, new system is more flexible, probably we can make it more in the future.
That was our decision and we need to move forward - with limited resources and time we cant move back everytime when are some voices to make things different.
When there is a lot of it, we try to react, that's why we decided to finally change training speed and admit that the change was to harsh - but, we need to invest our resources here, so we cannot take to much on our plate. That is why i still denay to cancel that limitations - it is just to small problem globally, compared to many other problems we are facing right now.

We need to make our priorities and decisions, not always everyone will be happy about it, but we need to move forward somehow.
And still, we will for sure make mistakes, and sometimes pick wrong priorities, but overall i think that users opinions where included many times, and so it will.