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Subject: Fans expectations
yea i think rankings arent always telling the whole things. I remember seeing some players who skillswise are weak but get way higher rankings than other players (form similar). But I also do not know what alternative would be better
Imo, it's the ranking that needs adjustment! Or at least...the way it is calculated. Imo, getting at the highest level of your country should instantly boost your team up to the top 12! Imo it's impossible for a team to play in 2nd class and still have more ranking than a team in 1st class.
Also, friendlies shouldn't have any influence on the ranking system. It's a friendly! A training match for crying out loud. It's like influencing teams on the Fifa ranking list, based on training sessions... ridiculous! Only official matches should count and each division should have a cap system in which you can rise or decrease in ranking.
F.e.... in Poland, being the largest country, ranking should be based on their division scaling. They have 6 divisions, so each division should have a ranking system, but not upwards as it is now, but downwards towards number 1, being the strongest team in Sokker, world wide!
Division 6 should go down from x thousand, counting the actual number of teams within Sokker. Say, it is 15000, including bot teams, then the countdown should start from 15000 downwards to 1.
Let's say 15k is as it is, then division 6 should cover the first 5k, from 15k up to 10k
Division 5 should then cover the next 3k, from 10k to 7k
Division 4 should cover the next 2k, from 7k up to 5k
Division 3 should cover the next 2k, from 5k up to 3k
Division 2 should cover the next 2k, from 3k up to 1k
And finally division 1 should cover the top 1k places.
Off course, this is just a theory and it should be calculated precisely, but divisions should cap the places in the ranking, even though some division 2 or 3 teams from Poland are way stronger than division 1 teams from Australia f.e.
Ranking is imo mainly a way to rank teams within 1 country, for league purposes
2nd, it's a list on global ranking to address the CC matches and maybe future matches. And again...Poland 2nd or 3th league teams might be much stronger than 2nd or 3th teams from small(er) countries, but that is, in no way, reason enough to divide teams into more equal strength teams. They are going to be ranked higher than your team anyways, so logically, they will be stronger. Ranking should also be a system that drives the manager to get the most out of his team, by playing for results over training young players.
And therefor I feel that adding more trainees in the form of free agents will lower the transfer prices in general and that higher rewards for achieving sportive goals should be implemented on the flip side. If we want to play for the best possible place (being competitive), then we need to reward managers who actually try doing so!
And in the end, the fan size needs to increase with country ranking and not with results on short term, league wise...
As for the expectations, Each division should have it's own expectations, based on that same ranking! If your team is ranked higher than your opponent, then the fans should expect a win and depending on the difference in ranking, also expecting a higher goal difference. On the other hand, if your team is ranked high in your division, and you decide to sell your players to focus on training and start over, your fans should be furious and reward you with a massive fan base drop! And that will encourage most managers to avoid doing cold turkey sell outs!
All features based on ranking and fans are linked with each other, but they need to be divided more evenly, being placed within their own reach within the ranking system.
Also, friendlies shouldn't have any influence on the ranking system. It's a friendly! A training match for crying out loud. It's like influencing teams on the Fifa ranking list, based on training sessions... ridiculous! Only official matches should count and each division should have a cap system in which you can rise or decrease in ranking.
F.e.... in Poland, being the largest country, ranking should be based on their division scaling. They have 6 divisions, so each division should have a ranking system, but not upwards as it is now, but downwards towards number 1, being the strongest team in Sokker, world wide!
Division 6 should go down from x thousand, counting the actual number of teams within Sokker. Say, it is 15000, including bot teams, then the countdown should start from 15000 downwards to 1.
Let's say 15k is as it is, then division 6 should cover the first 5k, from 15k up to 10k
Division 5 should then cover the next 3k, from 10k to 7k
Division 4 should cover the next 2k, from 7k up to 5k
Division 3 should cover the next 2k, from 5k up to 3k
Division 2 should cover the next 2k, from 3k up to 1k
And finally division 1 should cover the top 1k places.
Off course, this is just a theory and it should be calculated precisely, but divisions should cap the places in the ranking, even though some division 2 or 3 teams from Poland are way stronger than division 1 teams from Australia f.e.
Ranking is imo mainly a way to rank teams within 1 country, for league purposes
2nd, it's a list on global ranking to address the CC matches and maybe future matches. And again...Poland 2nd or 3th league teams might be much stronger than 2nd or 3th teams from small(er) countries, but that is, in no way, reason enough to divide teams into more equal strength teams. They are going to be ranked higher than your team anyways, so logically, they will be stronger. Ranking should also be a system that drives the manager to get the most out of his team, by playing for results over training young players.
And therefor I feel that adding more trainees in the form of free agents will lower the transfer prices in general and that higher rewards for achieving sportive goals should be implemented on the flip side. If we want to play for the best possible place (being competitive), then we need to reward managers who actually try doing so!
And in the end, the fan size needs to increase with country ranking and not with results on short term, league wise...
As for the expectations, Each division should have it's own expectations, based on that same ranking! If your team is ranked higher than your opponent, then the fans should expect a win and depending on the difference in ranking, also expecting a higher goal difference. On the other hand, if your team is ranked high in your division, and you decide to sell your players to focus on training and start over, your fans should be furious and reward you with a massive fan base drop! And that will encourage most managers to avoid doing cold turkey sell outs!
All features based on ranking and fans are linked with each other, but they need to be divided more evenly, being placed within their own reach within the ranking system.
The actual ranking is not really meaningfull. But why trying to make it meaningfull and then link it to important parameters such as sponsor payments, expectations, etc.?
Fan base (how it is implemented now) IS kind of a ranking system. And is has significant impact on all important financial aspects and balances out within leagues, between league levels and new/old managers with time. It is all wired well and tightly together. Changing it from a single point, would require a lot of simulation and potentiall create a huge mess in the end.
I agree fully with cometer: Maybe it takes sometimes a bit to long until it equalibrates, but still it does what it is supposed to do.
Fan base (how it is implemented now) IS kind of a ranking system. And is has significant impact on all important financial aspects and balances out within leagues, between league levels and new/old managers with time. It is all wired well and tightly together. Changing it from a single point, would require a lot of simulation and potentiall create a huge mess in the end.
I agree fully with cometer: Maybe it takes sometimes a bit to long until it equalibrates, but still it does what it is supposed to do.
I will only add that people that want to change things that work "alright" should look at what they did with expectations/mood changes and think whether they actually want the same people who did that to start working on a new version of ranking/fanclub etc.
In that philosophy, nothing is ever going to change. Might as well put on some hippy clothes while we're at it then :-p
I'm not talking about if something will change or when.
I'm saying that you should look at how they change things, what are their goals and then think how THEY will redo the fan clubs or match expectations.
They won't change those nuances in the way that you will like, they will change them as everything - to make teams receive less money, to punish some user types etc.
That's why I don't see why people would want them touching on small thing that might not be perfect, but are perfectly fine.
I'm saying that you should look at how they change things, what are their goals and then think how THEY will redo the fan clubs or match expectations.
They won't change those nuances in the way that you will like, they will change them as everything - to make teams receive less money, to punish some user types etc.
That's why I don't see why people would want them touching on small thing that might not be perfect, but are perfectly fine.
Just look at season expectations.
Good idea in general? Yes, it's a good idea to have previous/current seasons impact the supporters mood, not just last 4 or 5 games, it's more fair.
Is the implementation good? NO. Definitely not.
First of all, it was totally bugged for first 2 seasons because it was badly programmed and got fixed only thanks to Geston's free time.
Secondly, did it only for the league, completely ignoring national cup or even other aspects, like finances or training etc.
Most of all, they decide to use it as a tool to make people make less money and as a tool to punish people that have a lot of money on their account - so now those with money have extremely raised expectations that they are unable to fulfil unless they spend the money, or in some cases they would be unable to fulfil the expectations even if they spent their money.
So no, please stop asking them to touch things that work, they will fuck them up.
Want to know the first thing they would do if they started working on fan clubs and expectations? They would fuck up the average/min/max fanclubs and in this way limit the match attendance (based on fanclub) to limit the amount of money in the market.
Expectations for match? Have you seen the season expectations where 3 teams have to be champions and 6 have to be on podium? Good luck with match expectations, both teams would have the expectations to win and the win would be considered as "normal" by fans.
Unless you have money on your account. THEN no matter who you would play, you would ALWAYS have to win, while your bankrupt opponent who trains nobody and relies on sponsors and tickets would be considered as an underdog, even though he would have a 10+ rating over you.
(edited)
Good idea in general? Yes, it's a good idea to have previous/current seasons impact the supporters mood, not just last 4 or 5 games, it's more fair.
Is the implementation good? NO. Definitely not.
First of all, it was totally bugged for first 2 seasons because it was badly programmed and got fixed only thanks to Geston's free time.
Secondly, did it only for the league, completely ignoring national cup or even other aspects, like finances or training etc.
Most of all, they decide to use it as a tool to make people make less money and as a tool to punish people that have a lot of money on their account - so now those with money have extremely raised expectations that they are unable to fulfil unless they spend the money, or in some cases they would be unable to fulfil the expectations even if they spent their money.
So no, please stop asking them to touch things that work, they will fuck them up.
Want to know the first thing they would do if they started working on fan clubs and expectations? They would fuck up the average/min/max fanclubs and in this way limit the match attendance (based on fanclub) to limit the amount of money in the market.
Expectations for match? Have you seen the season expectations where 3 teams have to be champions and 6 have to be on podium? Good luck with match expectations, both teams would have the expectations to win and the win would be considered as "normal" by fans.
Unless you have money on your account. THEN no matter who you would play, you would ALWAYS have to win, while your bankrupt opponent who trains nobody and relies on sponsors and tickets would be considered as an underdog, even though he would have a 10+ rating over you.
(edited)
yes, I wish they had focussed first only on things that help attracting and keeping new users
Exactly. And if anything, try fixing the things that really work badly, like youth school
youth school works for me, I've got a lot of good guys during the last seasons...
Yeah that's the problem with ys for me, 3 people can do exactly same thing with youth school and in 3 seasons one will become a multimillionaire, one will get around the same money he invested, and one will get almost nothing back
Too much luck involved and too big differences in value between players - most that come into youth school are worth nothing and a very small number (0.1% or less?) is worth big millions
Too much luck involved and too big differences in value between players - most that come into youth school are worth nothing and a very small number (0.1% or less?) is worth big millions
If you go out from the fact they will ruin everything, it is indeed the best to stay in the stoneage... Ok...nice talking. I'll see you again at another post where someone had the terrible idea to share...an idea.
Sorry if being realistic offends you.
I'm not saying that they will necessarily ruing everything. I'm saying that even if they change what you ask for, they will do it their way and there is a very big chance that you will like the new version even less than you like the current one.
(edited)
I'm not saying that they will necessarily ruing everything. I'm saying that even if they change what you ask for, they will do it their way and there is a very big chance that you will like the new version even less than you like the current one.
(edited)
re: your 15:34 post.
Yeah, no argument here on this.
Maybe we should ask them to mess with youth school pulls, since I'm not entirely sure how much more screwed up it could actually be :)
Yeah, no argument here on this.
Maybe we should ask them to mess with youth school pulls, since I'm not entirely sure how much more screwed up it could actually be :)
they messed up a lot of thing ,but i think they have some succes too.
the new tranin system, is one imo.!
the new tranin system, is one imo.!