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Subject: »»Youth reform: Changes in youth academies / junior traini
It’s not true, or you didn’t read his last post.
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
(edited)
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
(edited)
So you want teams that already win in youth (because they have better players) to receive even better players (so they can win even more)
Wrong. Better players in youth league could be 7 players of 20 years which are formidable. A weaker team could have 7 players solid of 16 year.
Which one do you think have better juniors?
An choosing younger ones is strrategic in order to know its talent sooner. So you should decide to line up younger players than older ones (usually better as older)
I think it give more importance to junior matches and nore strategical decisions for managers
(edited)
Wrong. Better players in youth league could be 7 players of 20 years which are formidable. A weaker team could have 7 players solid of 16 year.
Which one do you think have better juniors?
An choosing younger ones is strrategic in order to know its talent sooner. So you should decide to line up younger players than older ones (usually better as older)
I think it give more importance to junior matches and nore strategical decisions for managers
(edited)
Why would anyone want to give ANY meaning to youth matches? They are terrible, unwatchable and random due to low level of skills. Almost nobody cares about them.
It’s a total lottery, starting with luck or bad luck with youths that you get, you have zero impact on that.
It’s a total lottery, starting with luck or bad luck with youths that you get, you have zero impact on that.
Maybe people wont watch, but maybe prepare them carefully.
If i choose younger players (usually worse) ill play badly , but i will know its talent sooner and more exactly.
if i choose older player (usually better) i wont have knowledgement about my younger one's talent but ill have more options to have better juniors.
We should ask managers to decide in every aspect of the game. Thats the point.
If i choose younger players (usually worse) ill play badly , but i will know its talent sooner and more exactly.
if i choose older player (usually better) i wont have knowledgement about my younger one's talent but ill have more options to have better juniors.
We should ask managers to decide in every aspect of the game. Thats the point.
And we are talking about fans mood, not qualification.
(edited)
(edited)
We should ask managers to decide in every aspect of the game. Thats the point.
but that's an obvious decision for everyone
if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so he improves worse
if you play a 18yo, you don't get exact talent of 16yo fast, but he will get better training
there is only one possible answer for a thinking person
what you would do with this idea is give better training to those who can get better results - and you have now ZERO impact on how strong your youth school is because it's total random
so no, not a good idea
but that's an obvious decision for everyone
if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so he improves worse
if you play a 18yo, you don't get exact talent of 16yo fast, but he will get better training
there is only one possible answer for a thinking person
what you would do with this idea is give better training to those who can get better results - and you have now ZERO impact on how strong your youth school is because it's total random
so no, not a good idea
It’s not true, or you didn’t read his last post.
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
are you sure about that?
he proposes to equalise the talent
in other words you will get less youths with talent 3.1-3.9
does that sound to you like improving youths?
2. balance talent drawings and the level of youths, more along the Gaussian curve (i.e., many moderately talented players, huge talents appearing rarely, and equally huge failures).
Also all other proposals (4) will drastically improve all juniors.
are you sure about that?
he proposes to equalise the talent
in other words you will get less youths with talent 3.1-3.9
does that sound to you like improving youths?
I must admit the answer is very confuse. “More along the Gaussian curve” and "balanced" mean nothing.
I don’t know the current distribution but for sure it’s already a gaussian curve distribution and the central point is talent 4 to 4.5, which is already not a good news to maximize progression in academy.
Currently, a "balanced" draw is 17y talent 4-4.5 and 17 weeks , its worth nothing at the end, even with a better position-skill distrib.
Honestly, I am not sure devs understand their own game, so… making things worse it is always possible. Like changing seasons to 12 weeks without re-rescaling other things (form, injuries, and off course juniors drawing... )
(edited)
I don’t know the current distribution but for sure it’s already a gaussian curve distribution and the central point is talent 4 to 4.5, which is already not a good news to maximize progression in academy.
Currently, a "balanced" draw is 17y talent 4-4.5 and 17 weeks , its worth nothing at the end, even with a better position-skill distrib.
Honestly, I am not sure devs understand their own game, so… making things worse it is always possible. Like changing seasons to 12 weeks without re-rescaling other things (form, injuries, and off course juniors drawing... )
(edited)
Well, i think (reading this post) that we are killing flyes with cannonballs .
I think it should be easier.
- You should see the junior skills, yes ALL the skills. So you can choose how to deal with them. It shouldn't be an exact number, but a "guessed" one. The actual system means that you get roughly +0.75 skill per week for an average player. This value is more or less depending talent and the blahblahblah. Think that the junior when pops to the main team you know their skills exactly... so even a guessed skill could not be neccesary (for me is an artificial game issue in juniors but not in senior, or guessed for all, or known for all)
- You should be able to choose a "training" for your youths. It can be implemented on many forms. On a pure basis, you will choose where the +0.75 will be that week. On a mixed one, you could choose where to fix a +0.25 skill and the other +0.50 will be pure random (now is nearly pure random and no control).
- Do we want to junior matches count? then you can choose +0.50 instead of +0.25 if player played in proper position.
- Do you want to junior matches gives some bonus for being in higher divisions? Give more money on youth matches, some prizes for youth, better global support mood (our youth are amazing!), better sponsors (youth sponsors!) and perhaps some bonus of youth arriving (you receive one extra youth this week for your youth school). But a bonus for training youth will make even stronger youths (and you don't like it -> overpower an already lucky youths).
A youth in their former club (club's man) could have some bonuses (better supporters mood, less salary, better average form... ). If you want to tinker, i'm sure there are a lot of ideas.
- It's mandatory that weeks and age should be treated like normal training to avoid the well-known week and age issues (or at least closely, near 85-90%). This can be overrided like givin a +0.75 bonus (with talent, starting skills and blahblah) for each week above the first. For each year above you will give 13 weeks bonus. You should uncap one level (or two) per year.
So what's the deal here? A older or mid-week youth will have similar skills that the one you get earlier, but PURE random (not being polished and directed in your youth). Still useful, but with all their quirks..
- I think the player should keep more time a youth (not to have 1-5 weeks youth), at least one complete season or even the player chooses when to release the youth unless the player tooks 19-20 years or so (better 19 yo, it seems a nonsense older youths)
On the DEVS problems (not the users one)
- Oooh, we don't want to increase the overall overpowered skills: Simple, less junior per week. Instead of having 1-6 per week, it should be better to have a meaningful 1-2 per week.
Far better should be to have more at the start of the season a less to the ending. Not enough? Well, reduce a bit the initial skills until you get desired balance or less points per week to skills.
- More radical view: No juniors per week. You start with a 25 all-around junior team (3 keepers). Every time you fire or promote a youth, you take a random one (or a pack to choose) in next week. No shitting of taking more or less places. A youth team is a youth team. The first week (or two) a young takes the team you cannot choose their training (it takes a random one).
- Youth could take injuries like oldies (better not tied to matches, unless you give more bonus for matches). That can slow training, but it's fair. But these should not mean more that one week or so.
The solution presented for devs, in my opinion, only has the good point of fixing an already known bug (the age and week of youths making for that parameter useless). But nearly all the other options it's to add an extra layer but for nothing meaningful (you get no control of your youths and their development, or worse, more expenses that would make a bigger gape between older teams and younger ones).
(edit: some changes for better explanation)
(edited)
I think it should be easier.
- You should see the junior skills, yes ALL the skills. So you can choose how to deal with them. It shouldn't be an exact number, but a "guessed" one. The actual system means that you get roughly +0.75 skill per week for an average player. This value is more or less depending talent and the blahblahblah. Think that the junior when pops to the main team you know their skills exactly... so even a guessed skill could not be neccesary (for me is an artificial game issue in juniors but not in senior, or guessed for all, or known for all)
- You should be able to choose a "training" for your youths. It can be implemented on many forms. On a pure basis, you will choose where the +0.75 will be that week. On a mixed one, you could choose where to fix a +0.25 skill and the other +0.50 will be pure random (now is nearly pure random and no control).
- Do we want to junior matches count? then you can choose +0.50 instead of +0.25 if player played in proper position.
- Do you want to junior matches gives some bonus for being in higher divisions? Give more money on youth matches, some prizes for youth, better global support mood (our youth are amazing!), better sponsors (youth sponsors!) and perhaps some bonus of youth arriving (you receive one extra youth this week for your youth school). But a bonus for training youth will make even stronger youths (and you don't like it -> overpower an already lucky youths).
A youth in their former club (club's man) could have some bonuses (better supporters mood, less salary, better average form... ). If you want to tinker, i'm sure there are a lot of ideas.
- It's mandatory that weeks and age should be treated like normal training to avoid the well-known week and age issues (or at least closely, near 85-90%). This can be overrided like givin a +0.75 bonus (with talent, starting skills and blahblah) for each week above the first. For each year above you will give 13 weeks bonus. You should uncap one level (or two) per year.
So what's the deal here? A older or mid-week youth will have similar skills that the one you get earlier, but PURE random (not being polished and directed in your youth). Still useful, but with all their quirks..
- I think the player should keep more time a youth (not to have 1-5 weeks youth), at least one complete season or even the player chooses when to release the youth unless the player tooks 19-20 years or so (better 19 yo, it seems a nonsense older youths)
On the DEVS problems (not the users one)
- Oooh, we don't want to increase the overall overpowered skills: Simple, less junior per week. Instead of having 1-6 per week, it should be better to have a meaningful 1-2 per week.
Far better should be to have more at the start of the season a less to the ending. Not enough? Well, reduce a bit the initial skills until you get desired balance or less points per week to skills.
- More radical view: No juniors per week. You start with a 25 all-around junior team (3 keepers). Every time you fire or promote a youth, you take a random one (or a pack to choose) in next week. No shitting of taking more or less places. A youth team is a youth team. The first week (or two) a young takes the team you cannot choose their training (it takes a random one).
- Youth could take injuries like oldies (better not tied to matches, unless you give more bonus for matches). That can slow training, but it's fair. But these should not mean more that one week or so.
The solution presented for devs, in my opinion, only has the good point of fixing an already known bug (the age and week of youths making for that parameter useless). But nearly all the other options it's to add an extra layer but for nothing meaningful (you get no control of your youths and their development, or worse, more expenses that would make a bigger gape between older teams and younger ones).
(edit: some changes for better explanation)
(edited)
- You should see the junior skills, yes ALL the skills.
Only if you paid “plus” ! Like NT managers (next)
Only if you paid “plus” ! Like NT managers (next)
well i think it's fair to maintain actual balance (yes, i'm plus).
Not being plus will make difficult to have the recording (the player bookeeping of their values) or things like that. Like the main team (as a philosophy).
Not being plus will make difficult to have the recording (the player bookeeping of their values) or things like that. Like the main team (as a philosophy).
but that's an obvious decision for everyone
if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so he improves worse
Maybe you havent read me or i havent explained myself correctly. That player is not going to improve worse if you lose matches, I said the fans mood (youth team fans mood) could affect in a porcentage in the level NEW juniors enter school.
Please, I understand and I accept is not a good idea for you, but read again and use better words and better expression to say the same things
if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so he improves worse
Maybe you havent read me or i havent explained myself correctly. That player is not going to improve worse if you lose matches, I said the fans mood (youth team fans mood) could affect in a porcentage in the level NEW juniors enter school.
Please, I understand and I accept is not a good idea for you, but read again and use better words and better expression to say the same things
It's the same thing my friend...
a) if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so you get worse youths
b) if you play a 18yo, you don't get exact talent of 16yo fast, but you will get better youths
what is more valuable, getting more exact talent of a youth that you have, or getting a better new youth? for me the answer is obvious... in option a) you gain nothing because there are always more spaces than really good youths and it's easy to see youths that can easily be deleted, in option b) you actually gain something...
a) if you play a 16yo, you get his exact talent faster, but you lose so you get worse youths
b) if you play a 18yo, you don't get exact talent of 16yo fast, but you will get better youths
what is more valuable, getting more exact talent of a youth that you have, or getting a better new youth? for me the answer is obvious... in option a) you gain nothing because there are always more spaces than really good youths and it's easy to see youths that can easily be deleted, in option b) you actually gain something...
And again:
we shouldn't create advantages for those that already have lucky (good) youth schools
it is like proposing lower taxes for those who make most money on transfers
we shouldn't create advantages for those that already have lucky (good) youth schools
it is like proposing lower taxes for those who make most money on transfers
Thanks Borkos.
I agree with you that is seems the best option should be plsying with older youths, but it depends on the percentage that affect the entering level.
For example, if i have 25% probability of having better youths if the fans mood is top, i dont care about knowing exact talent. But if the percentage is 5%, maybe i prefer to know better the talent in order to spend or not several weeks of training, or having a hood graphic to sell that player.
Anyway this is just an idea that Raul could take or not, lets continue talking about his proposals :) thanks for answering.
(edited)
I agree with you that is seems the best option should be plsying with older youths, but it depends on the percentage that affect the entering level.
For example, if i have 25% probability of having better youths if the fans mood is top, i dont care about knowing exact talent. But if the percentage is 5%, maybe i prefer to know better the talent in order to spend or not several weeks of training, or having a hood graphic to sell that player.
Anyway this is just an idea that Raul could take or not, lets continue talking about his proposals :) thanks for answering.
(edited)
If there was a limit of 15 or 20 youths... I could agree.
But with a limit of 30 it's far too easy to choose who "makes sense" and who should be deleted, even when you never play in youth league and the graph is a mess :)
But with a limit of 30 it's far too easy to choose who "makes sense" and who should be deleted, even when you never play in youth league and the graph is a mess :)