Subject: Youth reform - poll

Yeah, I freely admit I'm not really sure how the proposed changes will play out.

Also, yeah Terrion, you're awesome, but you really should have spelled out what number is least and most, because not every country or person think the same way when rating things :)

I don't think anything can be worse than the system we have now. Absolute garbage.

maybe to much good juniors leave our academies, but you should focus on only few juniors who finish their career as good seniors!

There are many reasons why a good junior will end as crap:

1. wrong talent analyzing
2. long term injuries
3. owner quits the game or looses interest
4. training far behind maximum

Sorry, I didn't know it. I always saw ratings from 0 to 10, from 1 to 5 (stars, usually), from 1 to 3... but always the higher rating IS the best

Raul: we have too much good juniors.
Meanwhile me constantly strugling to have at least 11 players in the junior school and most of them when they leave the ys look like this solid one I pulled today.

Gabriel Vinkler, age: 17
club: SK_SLAVIA_PRAHA, country: Česká republika
value : 847 503 Kč
wage: 17 251 Kč
very good [9] form
tragic [0] tactical discipline
height: 182 cm, weight: 82.9 kg, BMI: 25.03

poor [3] stamina hopeless [1] keeper
weak [4] pace tragic [0] defender
unsatisfactory [2] technique good [7] playmaker
poor [3] passing poor [3] striker

you say that talent like 4,5-5 is useless. why is that? according to gauss it is the middle of the scale!
Well... even with gauss curve there is so many academies and selection is so high, that most users can pick up players with talent less than 4... so, lets look at gauss here - game is producing 100 new juniors, only some percent (lets assume - 20% have better talent than 4). and that 20 juniors stays in game currently, rest is eliminated. In the same time that 20% of players is enough to fulfil needs of most manager in the game - i think that everyone here uses only players with at least less than 4 talent.


First, talent 4,5-5 is useless there is no point in discussing this.

We don’t care about a 20% better talent 4 globally in the game, we are individuals. It’s another problem.

When the middle point is set to 4.5 in a gauss distribution it’s massively juniors around 4.5 talent and individually 1/2 juniors with a weak talent.

What’s the plan in flooding the academy and market with weak talents ? Spending time testing talents is it the core gameplay of this game ? You said you want more balanced draws, talent 4.5 is a good start ?

If you search to fix balanced draw you should start by this. It’s easy to fix.
Max talent seems to be 5.9 (logicaly when a middle point seems 4.5). To set the middle point to talent 4 in draws just set the max talent to 5.0. Done.

After that, if you really want less super talent distribution globally, it’s ok. Just change your random system not to a normal distribution (which seem to be the case actually) when talent is under 4. Done.

But If you stay only on normal distribution and continue to set 4.5 as a middle point there is no other way to solved « more balanced draws » for individual teams. For sure.
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If you percive that we have to much weak juniors in sokker, that is a problem of perception mostly.
We get 1-6 juniors per week, so about 40 players per season to select, and here we are angry that we need to reject most of them - but it should be that way, even in top class academies it is impossible, to get some relevant juniors that will be promoted to the first team season after season.
That is normal, but user feels angry he gets a shit. Try to imagine it is open day in your academy, it is normal lot of to ambitiouns players appears, but they are not good enough to make a proffesional career.

Users feel angry because they often look at their youth school and they see shit everywhere and the total end-value of their whole YS will be around 1m euro, while other youth school that pay same amount for coach & places then receive 20m euro for 1 player and 10m for another player during the same time.

People are angry because whole YS is based ONLY on luck and if you are not lucky you can't do anything about, while if you are lucky you can swim in money.

There were 120 fresh 16-17yo youths during whole season that went for 2.5m euro+, out of which:

55 that went for 5m euro+, out of which:

30 that went for 6m euro+, out of which:

13 that went for 8m euro+, out of which:

5 that went for 12m euro+, out of which:

4 that went for 20m euro+.

That's what can be annoying. Not that you get bad youths, that's normal.
Problem is that most youths that COME OUT of youth school are still worth shit, while if you get lucky you get huge millions.
(edited)

The random factor is too high, same as with form and some other things.
Some random and luck is ok, but in this game we need less random and more result for the effort you put into the game.
We dont play the lottery.

Sure all those randoms should be fix and re-scale according to a shorten season.

It was almost “acceptable” for a season of 16 weeks. But for a season of 12 weeks and 2 officials match by week its unmanageable, unlucky coach’s can’t do nothing !

Off course it’s better with less random factors in game, but first, the priority should be to quickly fix those rands (just because it’s easy and not much time consuming to fix)
(edited)

+1

My main point is this: the value of players is relative. The fact that you currently perceive a player with a talent of 4.5 as worthless stems from the fact that the game provides you with significantly better players, so it's clear that they will never reach a level useful to anyone.

The same goes for skills - the fact that you consider a defender with 2x unearthly skills as weak is because the game generates a vast number of players with 2x divine skills.

In the end, since each of us trains players with a talent of 4 or less (other words - we all uses maybe 20% of top class juniors generated by the game even with gauss curve, rest is eliminated), and we have plenty of divine players in our clubs (I just sold 3 divine forwards, and I'm relegated from the Polish third division...), it all shows that the game generates TOO MANY good youths.

The problem indeed lies in the distribution, but it usually stems from the fact that high-level youths are typically capped at a skill level of 10 - hence they will never catch up to those who started training earlier and have greater skills.

he is solid, so it is like 8/18 - that is not a good junior at all, you claim to make solid juniors better? ;)

still, perception - you want to fullfill junior school players, that will be capable to reach level that will allow them to play at the level of your team.
Why is that? you simply cant have 10 new potential stars each season at your academy.

it all shows that the game generates TOO MANY good youths.

I don't think so

look at general level

the fact that someone has one player with divine skill(s) is not an indicator of anything

there are many TOP leagues in countries where teams play for 40-60 average, which is a TERRIBLE level of playing

most top level players are gathered by a very small number of teams

the level of TOP players - 3x divine, 5x magical - is fine now, the quality and number of top players is definitely much lower now

but I don't see any problem with raising the number for very good players so that the general level of teams raises

now teams playing at average rating of 50-65 look like shit, it's usually unwatchable - what would be the problem of raising the medium level teams from 50-60 to 60-65? I don't see anything wrong or problematic with that

btw. if you lower the number of youths with 3.0-3.9 talent then it will be a terrible move for the game and quality of highest level games... it will drop already A LOT when current 27yo+ players die out....

i will be happy to have 1 star every season thats more than enough so i can replace the oldest trainee with him
unfortunatly i do not control position of youth poping up and lately only strikers coming but yes this guy will join CL today ...

Razvigor Uzunov, age: 17
club: Lazio_1900, country: Bulgaria
value : 274 000 лв.
wage: 3 600 лв.
very good [9] form
tragic [0] tactical discipline
height: 170 cm, weight: 66 kg, BMI: 22.84

poor [3] stamina unsatisfactory [2] keeper
average [5] pace average [5] defender
solid [8] technique hopeless [1] playmaker
excellent [10] passing excellent [10] striker

i should be happy with him if i did not had only strikers lately and i do not want to sell him i want to train my. youths ...

So as I understand youth schools are actually good and then we just need to do a better selection which will be improved with the reform
Also 1 more thing that the reform tries to help is on giving more juniors to small countries.

In my perception this wont be enough, at least in my academy, the ones who I fire are really bad, so I am sure the good ones are always promoted, then fired as nobody buys them.

Couple of seasons ago promoting youths was exciting, now I dont even care

Raul, lower the sum of good youths will kill the game.
People need things looking forward to.
If you remove even more fun out of this game, it will be a very boring game and 50% of the users will get rid of their youth academy which will cause less players in sokker and an even more boring transfer list.
At this moment a lot of users receive crap only in youth and other ones have luck and receive 16y players that you can sell for 10 million euro.
The biggest problem is the high random factor in this game.
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